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  1. #21
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table crismans's Avatar
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    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    You know, the more I look at that photo the more I think that the jacket was made correctly that first attempt, but in Lee's mind it didn't tally with what he -thought- it should look like, so it was rejected. (Or any number of other reasons) From that moment, Peter kind of massaged things to give people what they wanted, and the original design was lost. I mean look at it, you could take a shot of a SL Nowak 1 and compare it to this and they present VERY similarly, right down to the particular shrunken grain cell type.
    Yeah, nothing against Lee at all, but if that is the infamous bellhop jacket then it seems that it's pattern "inconsistencies" have been overinflated somewhat. It's hard to tell from that picture, but it doesn't look that "off" to my eyes.
    Out here not knowing a dang thing.

  2. #22

    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    Wouldn't it be stinkin' hilarious if Peter in fact did have the "original patterns," but lost them over the years because no one wanted a jacket that way? :laugh: :laugh:

  3. #23

    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    man.....that would be funny...in an evil sad kind of way

    that jacket is too long....just like the current wings jacket. at least i can say that here without someone jumping down my throat on how accurate the wings jacket is. i've played with enough raiders jackets and different vendors enough to legitimately state what a good length is and the wings jacket overshoots that mark by a car coat length.

    the current wings pattern screams 'stunt jacket' to me....everything from their oversized fit to accomodate padding, to their oversized length to keep from riding up in stunts like the truck drag scene, down to the claim of calf skin leather....which is better than lamb for anything that requires leather to protect the owner.

    i don't think there is a market for 'terry leonard' or 'vic armstrong' gear, complete with girdle padding, elbow and knee pads, etc.......then again....if there was a market for it, i know who would endorse it.........
    currently on day 9 of my "20 days in the cooler".

  4. #24
    Artifact Aficionado Knight of the Round Table Kt Templar's Avatar
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    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    Least the zipper is on the correct side. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
    "Figuring things out for yourself is practically the only freedom anyone really has nowadays. Use that freedom." Jean Rasczak

  5. #25
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    Maybe I'm getting "Platon's Syndrome" but I don't think that jacket looks too long at all - definitely not in the realm of some of the Wings trenchcoat-length monstrosities we have seen to date. If you imagine him bringing his arm down, the sleeve would probably still come 1.5" past the bottom hem. And it does have the shoulders pretty much right, and that hint of a high back / lower front to the bottom - thus why people thought it a "bellhop"? I can also see why someone not used to shrunken lamb would see the way it makes the shoulder seams sit and think it's like a suit jacket - I know my Nowak did a little when new.
    "Go then, there are other worlds than these." ~ Jake Chambers

  6. #26

    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    I agree with G on this - that jacket does not look too long to me at all. It appears to my eye to be about the same length as my Wested custom which is just right on me for Raiders, ending about an 2" or 2.5" below my belt-line. If my jacket were any shorter, it would look ridiculous, so I know mine isn't "long." It's pretty hard to see much detail in that pic, but between the texture and the shape I can see, it sure looks close to G's Nowak. I would not be shocked at all to find out this was a jacket that actually was according to the "original pattern." I can also totally see Lee Keppler rejecting that as not "accurate." I like Lee a lot (I've talked to him on the phone some) but I don't quite trust his eye when it comes to things like this. His early hats were nice, but they were caricatures of the actual Raiders hat. They were what a fan's impression of the Raiders hat would be. If he had a similar idea about the jacket, and saw one like Tony's, I think he'd say it wasn't accurate as well, like you said earlier, Gunslinger. That theory make a lot of sense to me.

  7. #27
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table
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    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    well remember the jacket in that black and white photo is supposedly the 'Bell Hop' jacket, so if anything it's said to be short, not long

  8. #28

    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    i guess we beg to differ then

    from what i can see, it is at least 1" too long considering how low he's rocking that gun belt....looks more like the CS setup than raiders....i always thought IJ wore his gunbelt more 'over' his web belt instead of below it on raiders.

    theres a tonne of different factors involved as well. if that jacket isn't made with the 'off the shoulder' raiders fit, it won't pull that front up to a higher level making it appear longer.

    wouldn't it be funny if the secret guy was actually lee keppler and 'the jacket that matters' was actually this one?....then again.....we know this one is longer than nowak's standard design.....at least it's longer than mine (and i had a smidgen of length added to keep the jacket fitting to my proportions).
    currently on day 9 of my "20 days in the cooler".

  9. #29
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table
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    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders

    Considering the photo is from Peter, and Keppler sent his first jackets from Peter (the Bell Hop jackets) back, Lee Keppler wouldn't be the 'secret guy'
    I know from talking with Tony it couldn't be Lee Keppler anyway

    But you may be right Nef, we don't know for sure that is the 'Bell Hop' jacket in that photo, we are just told it may be.
    As I said someone must know more about the jacket in the photo, the guy wearing it maybe, perhaps Peter? or know where it is today?

  10. #30
    Sultan of Shovels Knight of the Round Table HWaltonJonesJr.Phd's Avatar
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    Re: Neil Cooper and Raiders



    some pics of the striated lamb USW is using for the Cooper Raiders...


    http://www.uswings.com/aviatn.asp#STLAMBIJ

 

 
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