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  1. #1
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table neutronbomb's Avatar
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    Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    This discussion is driven by member request directed to the site. It's a difficult discussion to be sure. However, one of the responsibilities we have. We all know the background, so I'd personally not like a rehash. The situation has been posed and it's we as members that need to provide input as to what action to take, if any.

    The issue before us is whether we need to remove Penman Hats as a vendor. The situation that has brought us here is the acquition and use of the Adventurebilt name by Penman Hats. Additionally, the Penman Hat's procurement of Adventurebilt hat making equipment i.e blocks and the advertisement and sales of Adventurebilt hats by Penman Hats.

    The issue is whether we wish to continue supporting Penman Hats while for all intents and purposes Adventurebilt has taken money from our members for hat purchases that have gone unfulfilled for 7+ years with a discontinuation of communication, status updates, or refunds to our members. And now with Penman Hats acquiring Adventurebilt in name, licensing, and hat making blocks the appearance that Steve Delk is now completely unable to fulfill his obligation to our members who purchased his products.

    This thread is open to your thoughts, comments, and advisements.

  2. #2
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table neutronbomb's Avatar
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    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    I should make clear that I have not ever ordered/purchased an Adventurebilt hat from Steve and thus, am not one of his customers left in limbo.

  3. #3

    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    Does that mean that Penman Hats will fulfill the remaining orders left behind by Delk?

    (I also am not waiting in limbo for an Adventurebilt, either. I'm just curious to see what happens now.)

  4. #4

    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Man View Post
    Just a few questions; Are not Marc Kitter and Steve partners in this affair? Are they two completely different companies? Could Marc not assist Steve in providing for the 'customer'? Trust me, I am not one to fight over money and if it was me I probably wouldn't even ask for it back considering Steve's circumstances but out of respect for those who provide his bread and butter....communicate with them!!! Even if it means humbling yourself and pleading for understanding from those your indebted to!! It's not asking a lot from a person no matter his circumstances. We all suffer hardships in life both physically and financially but that doesn't absolve anyone from responsibility. No one is asking for his head on a platter, just some courtesy to which he could entrust a friend or family member to deliver on his behalf. That would go a long way in preserving one's integrity. People would even rally to support a man of integrity but unfortunately that seems to be a quality this is lacking in todays world... There has to be accountability...
    This was and still is my opinion on the matter. As an entity, regardless of who owns the name, it would seem to me that Adventurebilt is responsible and obligated to fulfill its contractual agreement toward it's paying customers. I will admit that I don't know the LEGAL obligations that Penman hats would be under in assuming the Adeventurebilt name etc but it seems reasonable that Adventurebilt as an entity would not be absolved from its obligation to its clients unless Chapter 11 applies perhaps. I know nothing of U.S. law but I think the only recourse paying customers would have is a class action lawsuit....

  5. #5
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table crismans's Avatar
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    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    I am one of those who have an outstanding order with Adventurebilt. It's a bad situation all the way around, and one that has caused me a lot of frustration. I eventually wrote off ever getting a hat a long time ago. It was the only way to move on.

    For transparency, I consider John a good friend so that will color any opinion I have. I'm not sure on the legal issues of the situation, but, with all respect to the others with outstanding orders, while it would be great if John could make good on those orders, I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to be able to. It was Steve who entered into the agreement with the customers, not John.

    To answer the question however, I think Penman Hats should absolutely still be on the vendor list here. John has always delivered quality merchandise in a professional manner. His acquisition of Adventurebilt does not change that fact.
    Last edited by crismans; 07-12-2015 at 04:42 AM.
    Out here not knowing a dang thing.

  6. #6

    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    In my rookie opinion, John Penman should be allowed to stay on here as a vendor.

    He should not be personally required to complete Steve Delk's orders out of his own supply of felt and receive no money for the service/labor. Now if he was privately compensated by Delk / Adventurebilt maybe that is something THEY can work out.

    If you paid for an Adventurebilt but did not receive a hat.....it sucks no doubt. But why look to John Penman? Why not Marc Kitt? (I do not know how to spell his last name)?

    John does right by his customers and that is all anyone can ask of him. He was trying to do right by Delk too, in my limited knowledge of the situation.

  7. #7

    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    Quote Originally Posted by crismans View Post
    while it would be great if John could make good on those orders, I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to be able to. It was Steve who entered into the agreement with the customer. I think Penman Hats should absolutely still be on the vendor list here. John has always delivered quality merchandise in a professional manner. His acquisition of Adventurebilt does not change that fact.
    I agree and hopefully that's what came across in my post. I was trying to indicate that it is Adventurebilt who is under obligation and not John. That being said I am uncertain what legalities would apply to this situation...I remain neutral as to making a decision to remove Penman as a vendor as I feel it's not my place but my feelings on the matter remain the same as before.
    Last edited by Ram Man; 07-12-2015 at 06:19 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    My 2008 order is still awaiting completion (joke), so i have an Iron in this fire.....
    until recently I had no idea what was happening with regard to Steve Delk, Adventurebilt Hats, and any connection to future use of company name and equipment by Penman hats. All I was aware of was that i was unable to access the AB website, and that the name 'Adventurebilt' was now appearing on the Penman company website... Everything else that has been gleaned is from Hearsay and secondhand information, so some official info from those in the know would not go amiss...having said that >>>>>>>
    My opinion , for what it's worth, is this.....
    Firstly, I think an explanation is required as to what has actually happened to the Steve Delk version of the Adventurebilt Hat Company, and if Mr Delk is intending to refund customers who have already paid up for orders that he will now not be completing, a refund that can now be paid with any monies recieved from Mr Penman that have been paid for equipment, and Good Will for the company etc..if indeed this is actually what has happened [citation needed] ), .. Or will Mr Delk be taking the money for his personal use, dumping any back orders in the bin, and disappearing into the long grass? Indeed further to this question, are there more recent orders paid at the higher price that are still waiting to be filled, if so,who is going to be making these?..
    Secondly, I think that it would be fair to assume that if John Penman is now using the Adventurebilt name and logo to trade with, then a certain amount of responsibility and commitment is due to Steve Delk's existing customer base, and any outstanding hat orders, ...that would seem to me to be the honorable course of action .....
    Thirdly, It has been mentioned about any liability regarding Marc Kitter in this matter,.. Marc has always distanced himself from the trading practices of Steve Delk and made it quite clear that his is a different company... In the case of John Penman however, he is acquiring an existing company (if that is the case), and I would think it fair to say, not only it's Name, Notoriety, and Fame, but also it's past Commitments to customers...
    Some people have said that if back orders are not received, then it should NOT be down to the person who takes on that company, and to gain redress, legal action should be taken by the individual... firstly I disagree with the notion that a buyer of a company does not bear some responsibility to existing customers, And also taking legal action against a U.S. citizen from outside the country, (in my case the U.K.), is pretty much impossible....Believe me, I would have done it a long time ago if i was able to...
    Lastly, apart from the seemingly, shall we say 'unorthodox' approach to dealing with paying customers, by this i mean taking money and not producing the goods, not communicating with people either on the company website or in person, making promises and not keeping them, using company funds for purposes other than for what they are intended, continuing to take thousands of dollars worth of orders when there is absolutely no way of completing them, and then disappearing without a trace, and not bothering to tell people what is going to happen to oustanding order, and hoping to get away with it ..is I must say..Beyond belief.... and this is a man that John Penman has described to me as 'Honorable'..... Hopefully Mr Penman will come forward to let us all know if he intends to take the 'Honorable' course of action and make good any outstanding debt left by Steve Delk and his company, that it would appear he has now acquired....
    So before jumping in with both feet and banning people from this site, let's take a more measured approach to this... JP is I'm sure a reputable trader, and by all accounts a great hat maker, and I'm sure would relish the opportunity to restore his friend, Steve Delk and Adventurebilt's, good name by making some gesture to let down, out of pocket past customers if not by refunding their money, then by making their hats for them....apart from the apparent dodgy dealings, mismanagement, and unfair /underhanded business practices connected to the AB company in the past, one of the main issues hs always been lack of communication, so I would say, let's put these and any other questions people might have, to John Penman before making any move to ban people from this site, and let John tell us what he proposes to do......
    Metkiss..

  9. #9
    bendingoak
    Guest

    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    Where to begin.
    - should I start with that those few outstanding orders were made before fortune and glory was started.
    - should I start with that Steve isn't a member here and never advertised or been a part of this forum.
    - should I start with that Steve has replied to people on COW and thats where those customers came from.
    - should I start with how a respectful e-mail should have been sent to me asking what might be going on with Steve and Adventurebilt.


    I'll start with this as there are a few people here that are in the dark.

    Steve has suffered with prostate and colon cancer. He has lost vision in one eye, he is diabetic and had a stroke.This all came about from working 18 hour days 7 days a week post the Indy 4 success. Im beginning to hate that damn film. He has had no insurance so he is flat broke. I have tried to help him stay on his feet during this trying time in his life. He has fulfilled most of the outstanding orders. He works when he feels up to it but sometimes he doesn't have the strength to get out of bed.

    He plans to re-tire after he finishes the last hat he owes to customers. I have begged him to just close his doors and file for chapter 11 but he wants to fulfill these orders.
    Steve wants me to take over AB for him but I can't run two full custom made hat companies. He asked me to take care of his re-blocks because he doesn't have in him to do it anymore. I said sure but the cost of having the supplies for the AB name was too costly just for re-blocks. Thats When I came up with the idea of the AB legacy. It is a collection of very specific indiana Jones hats as to limit how much stock I will need to invest in and I can take care of Steve customers for re-blocks. This way it will warrant the extra expense of AB materials and also not take from any new sales from Steve. As I'm not offering anything Steve or Marc is offering. a percentage goes to Steve of every sale to help him keep his lights on, to keep groceries on his table, etc, etc.

    Just to be clear. Steve Delk is Adventurebilt , Marc Kitter is Adventurebilt Delux and John Penman is Penman hats with Adventurebilt Legacy collection which right now is two hats andy no options. Steve still has all his blocks and tools. I have a set of his two indy 4 hats which I am not offering until he retires. I have his raiders block as well but thats it. The idea is when he retires I will keep the AB name alive by providing re-block/re-furbish services to any AB customers, His Indy 4 hats, and a couple Indy specific hats with no options though the AB Legacy collection. Right now I'm am working to switch over his site to under my control to update his site. To help Steve out and to update Steve's customers.

    if you want to take me off of this forum for trying to help out a fellow human being and someone this indy community owes a lot to. when life has ran all over him so do it. I find it damn funny that everyone here loves a character who always does the right thing over fortune and glory but doesn't gives a rats ass about a human being who hit rock bottom.

    Just make sure you take every single thing that has to do with me or Penman hats off of here.
    Last edited by bendingoak; 07-13-2015 at 08:10 AM.

  10. #10

    Re: Open Discussion regarding Penman Hats status as a vendor on F&G

    Well said John, you are doing the right thing in helping a man in need.

 

 
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