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  1. #11

    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger View Post
    If I remember my fairy tales correctly, the whole story of the jacket that led to the Expedition was fabricated as well. Once we got enough pieces of the puzzle it became very clear Patterson was full of it there too. None of his notes made any sense when compared to anything else. IIRC someone examined a Wested replica, at best.
    Exactly.
    The Expedition story was a very elaborated plot to convince as many costumers as possible to buy the jacket.
    As an exchange ALL the perpetrators (of course there's more than one) received free jackets. Some people sell their integrity very cheap...

    Brandon, WELCOME! And thanks for sharing this info.

    Kind regards.-
    Last edited by Indiego Jones; 01-04-2014 at 07:56 PM.

  2. #12
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table crismans's Avatar
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    Quote Originally Posted by Indiego Jones View Post
    Exactly.
    The Expedition story was a very elaborated plot to convince as many costumers as possible to buy the jacket.
    As an exchange ALL the perpetrators (of course there's more than one) received free jackets. Some people sell their integrity very cheap...
    Unfortunately, we were all witness to the same thing later on. But, I try to remind myself that's the past and with the efforts of this board and others (some, not so much ), I think we'll get to most of the facts.
    Out here not knowing a dang thing.

  3. #13
    fifthchamber
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    Yeah...That was what I suspected....

    I went back through the forum posts on the Expedition...Just to be sure, but Patterson's stories were riding in the face of Brandon's post above, and I wanted to check....

    That's sad.....I mean, yeah, I've never seen the Expedition as being "screen accurate", at all....It's far from it, but there are people out there who bought it based on the other forum's consensus that it was "lineage"....And that's not so cool at all....If what you're saying is that the heads of the forum were "helped" to believe that story by getting free jackets, then, indeed, very cheaply sold out...

    Worrying....

    - - - Updated - - -

    ........Of course, so much was deleted when Patterson outed himself that it makes the finding of details rather difficult..

    But it's clear that the origins were based on a fiction......If, now, a somewhat smudged fiction.....

  4. #14
    fifthchamber
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    http://s307.photobucket.com/user/sly..._3479.jpg.html

    Incidentally, in exploring all this again, I found these photos.......Now, I loved Tony Nowak...But wouldn't this, as the first of the "authentic Raiders" he was making, have been closer to the film? If he was working off two screen used jackets? There are several discrepancies, and I'm strongly beginning to think that all Tony did was what Todd, and all the rest of us have done..He eyeballed it...And gradually worked his designs closer to what we needed/what can be seen as we responded to his designs coming out....Fine tuning as he made them?

    If so, that would open the floor immensely.....Making all the jackets we wear now, whoever makes them, based on a LOT of sweat and work, but all done by eyeball and done by fans crazy enough to bother..

    This, also, seems to back up what Brandon said above......Alarming.....Although, rather expected really..

  5. #15
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    No, that's "Slydini's" jacket. (I think that was his nickname) This got covered to death at an earlier date. Long story short, that jacket is a complete anomaly. There was a coincidence of a few things going on at the time, and it all made sense as to why the differences between it and literally every other Raiders he made. 000/888 is the one to make most note of.

    Personally I think that the OTT /OCD comparisons, overlays, examinations and measurements of 000/888 that we have done firmly establish Tony's copy as the real deal. Beyond reasonable doubt. I'm not saying that as any sort of a Tony fanboy - the guy had limitations like any of us. To my eye and thought, the only area where I think he got it wrong was that the particular shrunken lamb species used was a bit too pronounced in its graining. Other than that, everything checks out in ways that Tony wouldn't be able to test the way we have (eg, screen overlays, etc. that confirm the "wrong" cut, other shapes & proportions, sizings, placement, etc. all matching.)

    Plus that minor factor of him having made the jackets for CS.

    Plus the fact that he was hardly going to risk future Hollywood jobs by making up bullshit stories about his employers and what they gave him access to in order to sell some fake knockoffs.
    "Go then, there are other worlds than these." ~ Jake Chambers

  6. #16
    fifthchamber
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    Hmm....I see...I guess that's a relief of a kind.....Although still not firm proof either way eh?

    Are there any photos of the first jacket Tony made from the originals then? Those would go a fair way towards helping sure it up some...

    As for "fake knockoffs", nah, no one could accuse Tony of that at all...His work wasn't cheap enough to come close, but he may have been able to push some of the solid facts up a touch...It's not like Lucas would have noticed..Although yeah, Tony being Tony, I agree, it's not likely....

    Just wondering....If one jacket shows up as "loose", we could use some more scepticism all over perhaps...

  7. #17
    Grizzled Grave Robber Knight of the Round Table Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    I think there's plenty of "proof" - depends on your definition.

    Lots of pictures of 000/888 around - that's the one you're after.
    "Go then, there are other worlds than these." ~ Jake Chambers

  8. #18
    fifthchamber
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    Always does eh?

    I'm not looking to find anything special...I liked Tony too much...Never met him, but he's always been a solid bloke, and he bodybuilt with Arnold..So, he's all good with me..Just interested in what there was to firm it up....His version was always the closest out there, so I was shocked to see the 001/888, that was all....It's not right...But I'll have a look for the 000/888 for sure..Thanks for the advice!

    Proof wise, well...We had Patterson for years...I don't think anything else could open things up as much as his lies...So...I'm fine with what I have now..

  9. #19
    fifthchamber
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    Having just gone through the whole COW debacle around the Tony jackets, and then followed it up with the FilmJackets check on the ToD jackets, I agree...Tony does seem to be the best bet all round....Despite his being unable to say who sent the jackets to him, based on what he made after he saw it? I'd agree, it seems that he's the best bet...

    Neutron's post on Filmjackets had most of the important points covered...Thanks for that, and thanks Gunslinger for filling me in on the rest of it....

  10. #20
    World Traveler Oildale Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Raiders Jackets History and Quantity

    Welcome, Brandon! I've enjoyed your posts over at the RPF, especially the Raiders stuff. Always nice to have more expertise to draw on.

 

 
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