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Junior
08-09-2010, 02:16 PM
Anyone happen to know the specs of the Raiders jacket worn by HF? Sleeve, chest, front, and back. All I know it's a size 40. I'm probably going to get one of the Cooper limited Raiders jackets and want to get the closest size possible since its NOT custom like Nowak. I have a CS Nowak with HF size and wasn't sure if the specs were different than Raiders. I do wear the same size as Ford by the way. ;)

Raskolnikov
08-09-2010, 03:02 PM
I seem to remember that Tony Nowak's 000 Raiders was more or less the same size as the CS. It was only a different cut.

Kt Templar
08-09-2010, 03:14 PM
Anyone happen to know the specs of the Raiders jacket worn by HF? Sleeve, chest, front, and back. All I know it's a size 40. I'm probably going to get one of the Cooper limited Raiders jackets and want to get the closest size possible since its NOT custom like Nowak. I have a CS Nowak with HF size and wasn't sure if the specs were different than Raiders. I do wear the same size as Ford by the way. ;)


His chest size is more likely a 42. I usually wear a 40 and his jacket was big on me.

Raider S
08-09-2010, 05:23 PM
I thought RC or one of those guys might have the measurements they got from Tony?

RCSignals
08-09-2010, 09:18 PM
All of the jackets Raiders to Crystal Skull are about the same size.
Ford's size hasn't changed too much over the years it would seem

Front Flap w/ Collar Stand vertically from top to bottom: 23"
Shoulder from sleeve seam to collar seam: 6.5 to 7"
Sleeves from shoulder seam to cuff end : between 25 1/2" to 25 3/4"
Back vertical length from bottom of Collar Stand to bottom of Lower back panel: 23"
Chest width: 22 1/2"
bottom width: 20 1/2"
Pockets: 8" (includes storm flap) x 6.5"

Back lengths of other movie jackets vary but this is because of fit. they all end in about teh same place.
Front lengths are quite consistent, the CS is actually slightly shorter in front.

Kt Templar
08-09-2010, 09:24 PM
I really find a back length of 23" hard to believe. That's almost too short even for me.

The ToD was about 26".

RCSignals
08-09-2010, 09:45 PM
and yet it is.

See 'theman' photos. His is that length too. It is all in how the jacket hangs.
The others fit more properly. If someone 'corrects' the pattern of a Raiders jacket i'd suspect the back length would have to be made longer to compensate for the changed 'fit'

Back length of my Ford sized Wested ToD is 25.5".
Back length of a Ford sized CS is 26 - 26.5"


But junior is asking about the Cooper Raiders jacket. The back length it will be is anyone's guess.

PLATON
08-17-2010, 12:14 AM
Guys, the back length is the easiest part. Forget what others say. Forget TN jacket that has equal front and back.
Just look at a screen cap of HF's back, see where the jacket bottom is hanging on his butt, measure your back to butt distance and that's your back length.

I have a wild theory about how TN jacket has equal front and back.
This theory assumes that TN never had a film used jacket and made the Raiders jacket using specs provided by some experts from another site. But he messed up a little detail. To elaborate, maybe he was told that one of the differences between CS and Rotla jackets was the placement of the yoke seam. The yoke seam was supposed to be placed 2 inches higher than CS. Maybe TN instead of moving the seam only and keeping the back length same as with CS jacket, he moved the back panel piece 2 inches higher. If you notice, the CS and his version of Rotla have the same back panel. It's the shoulders panel that is smaller in his Rotla jacket.
I am affraid that the film jacket back panel is an entirely different shape. I have some seen photos where people wearing their TN Rotla jackets and their backs are ridiculously short. There is not one scene in the movie where I thought his back was short...

Anyway, that's just a theory of mine, a personal theory and don't expect anyone to accept it. Neither I want to impose it on anyone. Just mentioned it here for the sake of discussion and for further consideration.

Nefarious
08-17-2010, 12:56 AM
platon.....i wholeheartedly disagree with your theory :) but everyone at this site is entitled to their own opinion and we won't judge anyone for not marching to the drum of the beat that we play.

there is one thing that i can confirm for you though. your theory states that tony just tweaked an existing pattern to get to raiders. i have both the cs and a number of raiders jackets....they are both hugely different in pattern and fit. sometimes it's awkward to wear TN's raiders jacket because of the fit. tony copied something that was designed to fit quite poorly. that is something that is outside of his nature but gave the fans what they wanted. putting on a CS jacket after wearing the raiders pattern feels like finally switching back to something that is correct.....like finally using your own hockey stick again after borrowing your buddies spare.....totally different animals.

another thing, and most importantly, big tony never went out to sell his wares to the fans. he never marketed it or pushed existing clients to "tell your friends". he was happy with whatever came through the door without his solicitation. he would of never fabricated anything just to make a sale....it wasn't in his nature.

Gunslinger
08-17-2010, 03:10 AM
The other thing is the "short back" does create the kind of dynamic back-to front sweep of the bottom hem. Speaking from my own experience, I did captures from Raiders in different key poses where the jacket was tight in back so I could replicate the pose with my own existing jacket. I then measured where it would have to come to to nail the same spot. I did this from at least half a dozen angles multiple times (zipped and unzipped) and with multiple shots, and they all tallied within about a quarter of an inch of each-other. And they all meant front and back were equal length.

PLATON
08-17-2010, 07:45 AM
Thanks for your replies guys.

Tyderium
08-17-2010, 10:34 AM
I think if we back the assumption that Tony did in fact copy a film jacket then that jacket measures 23" long. It is a short jacket but it does seem, in my opinion, to match up very closely in length to the jacket seen on film. The front on shots of the jacket unzipped appears longer in certain scenes, but it will be shark finning in the back. Also the pants were worn higher over the waist so in certain scenes it gives the illusion that the jacket is longer than it actually is. The bottom of a Ford sized TN1 jacket will cover the back pocket flaps of a pair of Noel Howard Raiders pants. I feel this image is a particularly good one for showing how short the jacket was. My 2 cents.


http://a.imageshack.us/img717/6251/shortjacket.th.jpg (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/shortjacket.jpg/)

RCSignals
08-17-2010, 04:43 PM
The jacket was definitely short.
Remember the jacket of every movie (in ford's size) was about the same front length.
The back lengths change but it is because of fit of the jacket and how it hangs. A CS jacket made with a back length of 23" would definitely be and wear as too short.
I know, it's a concept hard to get your head around.

Topper
08-19-2010, 08:50 AM
I remember Tony Nowak saying about the CS jacket that the size is like a snug 44.
The CS Jacket is bigger in the shoulder/back across section when compared to the Raiders. The chest size was 22~ on both.

neutronbomb
08-19-2010, 02:09 PM
Hi Platon, You've run into all us guys who have Nowak jackets and/or who knew Tony ;)
So it may be a tough sell for that theory to some of us :( :D

Because essentially you have to accept that Tony is a Liar for that theory to work ??? >:(

However, I joined up because it was my understanding that this site was about open and free discussion and debate and I certainly respect your right to your opinion. You do have KT whose tried on chris kings jacket and thinks it's too short (BTW Ford is 5'10 - 5'11. Guaranteed (for an ice cold beer anyway :P If that makes a difference) so at least maybe you're not all alone on your idea

I wish you had had the opportunity to wear the 000 jacket and compare it to the ford specced CS jacket and also to try on lots of different jackets and feel the fit differences and hear Tony explain to you how the jackets are made different and where the difference's are and everything.

Chewbacca Jones
08-23-2010, 02:57 PM
If I may remind everyone, regarding HF's jacket length; Total height isn't the only factor in how the 23" jacket will look. Much of Harrison's height is in his long legs. 23" works well with his leg-to-torso ratio. Any other ratio, and 23 is too long or too short. Also, the slope and pitch of his shoulders will effect how even the front and back of the jacket will look. 99% of us will not get the right results by duplicating exact measurements.

RCSignals
08-23-2010, 05:06 PM
The front length of all the movie jackets in his size is pretty much the same. The only one with a 23" back length is the Raiders, and 23" only works because of the wonky cut and way the jacket hangs and 'behaves' when worn.

PLATON
09-08-2010, 09:18 AM
You guys call a 23 inches jacket short? That's not short, it is normal.

It's only that any 23 inch (front) jacket would have a back of at least 25 inches which again is neither short nor long, it's normal.

Why TN made the back equal to the front? I have no other logical explanation than the one given above.


If we take it for a fact that Peter was the man who made the jacket that TN copied, then someone explain to me why the other jacket, the one Terry Leonard wore and that was measured by a movie fan, had longer back than front. They were cut with the same pattern, weren't they?

In fact, show me any garment that has back equal to front....and I 'll believe you.

Gunslinger
09-08-2010, 09:28 AM
Platon, check out my jacket here: http://www.fortuneandglory.org/index.php?topic=55.0 - front and back are identical and IMO it is dead-on the movie jacket. As Bryan is noting in his other thread, the Nowaks "move" the same as the movie jacket does. It affects the length all the time. I know of no other jacket produced by anyone that does that. Pretty compelling stuff.

Aren't there dynamic looking biker jackets & half-belts cut with that sort of back to front hem sweep?

Hate to be a negative Nellie again, but I wouldn't put too much faith in those other measurements or the jacket that allegedly came from Leonard.

PLATON
09-08-2010, 09:31 AM
Since you say like that, then I guess the only way for me is to buy one TN to wear and see if I like it.

Since you are the boss here, why don't you invite Peter so that we ask him if he remembers making the front equal to the back?

Gunslinger
09-08-2010, 10:16 AM
I'm not the boss here - I'm not even a Moderator (apart from my own vendor section) - I'm just speaking my mind. I'm not trying to be a smart arse or anything. I'm very open for it to be changed.

To be honest if you could get your hands on a TN that fit you, just to wear it, I think you'll understand. I also didn't - but then it took me buying one and walking around in it for about 1 minute to "get" it. But surely you can understand the idea of what we're saying?

On the other topic, Peter has been invited and there is a vendor section for him waiting. I'd love it if he could come so we could discuss this stuff.

RCSignals
09-08-2010, 06:19 PM
You guys call a 23 inches jacket short? That's not short, it is normal.

It's only that any 23 inch (front) jacket would have a back of at least 25 inches which again is neither short nor long, it's normal.

Why TN made the back equal to the front? I have no other logical explanation than the one given above.


If we take it for a fact that Peter was the man who made the jacket that TN copied, then someone explain to me why the other jacket, the one Terry Leonard wore and that was measured by a movie fan, had longer back than front. They were cut with the same pattern, weren't they?

In fact, show me any garment that has back equal to front....and I 'll believe you.


As has been said many times, it has to do with the cut of the jacket and incorrect construction, which effects how the jacket hangs off the shoulders. If the jacket were 'normal' it would have to have a slightly longer back length just as the ToD, LC and KOTCS jackets have a longer back length.
that said the 'HF' spec Raiders jacket isn't going to be right for every person.

What jacket did Terr Leonard wear that was measured? According to that story Terry Leonard kept his jacket from the film and later donated it for auction. Terry Leonard's story I understand is different. He did not keep his jacket and as such did not have one to donate to any auction.
Besides which the other description of that jacket more match the Bantu Wind jacket than the main hero jacket.
so no it would appear based on that they were not the same pattern.

Hollywood
09-15-2010, 07:28 PM
Hi Platon, You've run into all us guys who have Nowak jackets and/or who knew Tony ;)
So it may be a tough sell for that theory to some of us :( :D

Because essentially you have to accept that Tony is a Liar for that theory to work ??? >:(

However, I joined up because it was my understanding that this site was about open and free discussion and debate and I certainly respect your right to your opinion. You do have KT whose tried on chris kings jacket and thinks it's too short (BTW Ford is 5'10 - 5'11. Guaranteed (for an ice cold beer anyway :P If that makes a difference) so at least maybe you're not all alone on your idea

I wish you had had the opportunity to wear the 000 jacket and compare it to the ford specced CS jacket and also to try on lots of different jackets and feel the fit differences and hear Tony explain to you how the jackets are made different and where the difference's are and everything.




Western Costumes has Ford measured barefoot at 6,0 1/4. This was for Harrison's "Hollywood Homicide" wardrobe.

Tyderium
09-16-2010, 02:40 AM
Thanks, interesting info Hollywood. Lot of varying speculation on this over the years. But based on this info it is feasible Ford could have been pushing anywhere between 6.0 1/2 to 6.1 at the time of Raiders.

neutronbomb
09-16-2010, 03:24 AM
Last year my dad was eye to eye and nose to nose with HF having an exciting conversation about beavers. Exact same height. Dad's 5'10.5. Couldn't believe how small and thin HF looked. People do shrink a bit with age though.




Twin Falls, Idaho.

Hollywood
09-16-2010, 03:09 PM
Last year my dad was eye to eye and nose to nose with HF having an exciting conversation about beavers. Exact same height. Dad's 5'10.5. Couldn't believe how small and thin HF looked. People do shrink a bit with age though.




Twin Falls, Idaho.


Possibly. I am 5'10 even. I met Ford at the Butterfields Auction when I got my TOD fedora. He was certainly taller than me, and he was wearing tennis shoes. So I say he was at least at some point over 6ft.