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View Full Version : TOD Jacket (2 jackets used in Temple of Doom including the ROTLA Prototype Jacket)



RCSignals
08-04-2010, 08:09 PM
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/Temple%20of%20Doom/th_ToDbehindscenes.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/Temple%20of%20Doom/?action=view&current=ToDbehindscenes.jpg)

crismans
08-05-2010, 02:09 AM
Thanks for posting this, RC. I love finding these behind the scenes pics. Sometimes you can tell a lot from these things (using the dark arts of picture studying).

jasonalun
08-05-2010, 02:19 AM
Yes, that's a great shot of the hat. You can see from this angle how low the hat is creased in front -equal to the back! This is what creates that unique Temple hat look. The Raiders and Last Crusade hat have a higher crease in the front than the back.

crismans
08-05-2010, 02:35 AM
Yes, that's a great shot of the hat. You can see from this angle how low the hat is creased in front -equal to the back! This is what creates that unique Temple hat look. The Raiders and Last Crusade hat have a higher crease in the front than the back.



See? That just shows the differences. I like the hat and am interested in it, but it's a distant second to the jacket. You notice the hat immediately and I'm going "Look at those are creases on that jacket. They distressed the heck out of that one! Look how tight it is!" :D

jasonalun
08-05-2010, 02:53 AM
Yeah, I was always a hat guy. I never even noticed his jacket until I got to the forums...

Nefarious
08-05-2010, 06:23 PM
look at the hat closely........it almost looks like there is a teardrop crown bash in her.....i can't tell if the shot was from the beginning or the end of the movie.....i'm guessing the beginning because there is no bandage on his hand.

you think ford was fighting the taper monster in those scenes?

crismans
08-05-2010, 06:27 PM
I'm thinking that jacket (tighter fit and more wrinkled sleeves) was used in the second village scene that was filmed first (if that makes sense). Maybe they just hadn't put the bandage on yet?

RCSignals
08-05-2010, 06:38 PM
You mean Nef, the D-P is correct after all? ;D

jasonalun
08-05-2010, 06:45 PM
I see the little shadow you are seeing in the back top crown inside the center crease, Nef, but that isn't a teardrop bash. The "V" at the back crease is way too sharp for there to be one. If there were, you would see an indentation on the opposite side (one nearest the camera) as well. I believe what you are seeing is just a slight dent in that side of the crown from wear and tumble to the hat during scenes.

Kt Templar
08-05-2010, 08:36 PM
Ah, TC can tell you ALL about the DP.....

:angel:

Gunslinger
08-05-2010, 09:49 PM
90% sure its from the end - the green trees in the background, and the jacket looks like the finale jacket with those wrinkled arms. Ford's also wearing sunnies around his neck so I think they're probably just blocking the scene.

crismans
08-05-2010, 11:01 PM
90% sure its from the end - the green trees in the background, and the jacket looks like the finale jacket with those wrinkled arms. Ford's also wearing sunnies around his neck so I think they're probably just blocking the scene.


Okay, I agree that the jacket looks like the finale jacket but they shot the finale scene first if memory serves (relative to the "first time at the village scene). It was much easier to shoot the village "full of life" and then defoliate to it being a wasteland than do the reverse.

Or are we on the same page and I don't recognize it! ;)

Gunslinger
08-06-2010, 01:31 AM
Oh, yeah, I agree it was shot first - just talking as in "end of the movie".

crismans
08-06-2010, 02:39 AM
Oh, yeah, I agree it was shot first - just talking as in "end of the movie".


Understood!

Noah
08-08-2010, 01:52 AM
I like all of those wrinkles on the sleeves.

crismans
08-08-2010, 03:13 PM
I like all of those wrinkles on the sleeves.


Oh yeah, I agree. The Temple jacket is easily the most distressed looking of the movie jackets. It looks like it has really been through the wringer, like it is literally about to fall apart. If you went by movie continuity, you can see why Indy had to retire this one for his Raiders jacket.

Raskolnikov
08-08-2010, 07:08 PM
And I was going to say: 'look a those creases!' but there's like twenty people who have already done it ;D

Noah
08-08-2010, 08:34 PM
It looks like it has really been through the wringer, like it is literally about to fall apart.
:D It sure does. The leather looks so dry, especially the jacket at the end of the movie in the village scenes. I agree, IMO, the Temple of Doom jacket looks the most worn.

jasonalun
08-09-2010, 01:24 AM
For cryin' out loud, the close-ups of that jacket collar in the village scenes, you can see that the two pieces of the right side collar are actually coming apart! The stitching has given way and the two halves are hanging apart!

Gunslinger
02-03-2011, 12:57 PM
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-20h48m28s128.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-20h48m28s128.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-20h48m45s53.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-20h48m45s53.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-20h48m57s151.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-20h48m57s151.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h14m36s36.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h14m36s36.jpg) 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http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h39m43s82.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h39m43s82.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h39m57s214.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h39m57s214.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h41m48s39.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h41m48s39.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h42m09s238.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h42m09s238.jpg) 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http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-23h03m37s76.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-23h03m37s76.jpg) "Fortune and glory, kid."

For discussion of the Temple of Doom jacket. More to come. Observations?

neutronbomb
02-03-2011, 01:55 PM
Good photos. It really looks like they used Bantu Wind Dockside/Prototype Jacket as a template for the ToD to me. Plus in some of those photos the leather reminds me of your jacket. It actually doesn't look too far off from some of the Raiders.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-03-23h02m49s93.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/D700-20101211-121850.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/vlcsnap-2010-10-09-21h27m29s96.pnghttp://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/vlcsnap-2010-10-11-07h15m07s156.png

RCSignals
02-03-2011, 05:36 PM
It's certainly highly distressed. The leather though I'm sure was smooth.

neutronbomb
02-03-2011, 06:02 PM
You mean without the ribby striations? KT's mentioned the jacket Peter has is totally plain, smooth leather too. Just interesting to take a look at it compared to the Raiders.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-03-23h01m12s171.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Airplane%20Jacket/airplanejacket_sleeve1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h44m41s235.jpg

Kt Templar
02-03-2011, 06:38 PM
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4518/nhjacketcopy.jpg (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/nhjacketcopy.jpg/)

All the pics I have of it show very smooth lamb.

There may be some merino, but very minimal.

Gunslinger
02-03-2011, 08:56 PM
Do you have any shots of the sleeves KT? Because going by that comparison, I can't see how they are the same jacket. As Neutronbomb has noticed, there is much more grain than that, visible especially on the right arm and collar. You can even see what look like the lumpy rib lines on the upper right arm. So there are 2 jackets seen in ToD, yeah? We may have some teasing apart to do.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/g_veste_nh_peter-1.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/g_noel_howard-1.jpg

Kt Templar
02-03-2011, 09:12 PM
There may even be 3 jackets in ToD.

If you watch the village 'donated food' scene closely you see the jacket changes from shot to shot. Look closely at the distressing on the collar.

I believe a lot of the grain you think you are seeing is film noise.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2064/sleevedetail.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/i/sleevedetail.jpg/)

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/2978/upperright.jpg (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/upperright.jpg/)

Gunslinger
02-03-2011, 09:18 PM
Look at the top left of your shot on the sleeve. See the row of lumps? I think I can see 3 distinct sets of them down the arm. Do you mind posting more shots of this jacket?

(Most of what we are seeing is definitely not film gain, but there DOES seem to be some lighting coming in at extreme angles that is really highlighting what grain IS there more than you would get in normal ambient light such as in your photos if you know what I mean.)

Gunslinger
02-03-2011, 09:28 PM
Example of how this jacket can look like it's changing. Note how the collar stand is really different between these 2 shots - shape, marking, edge. However, it's the SAME shot, same jacket.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h55m25s2.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h56m03s103.jpg

RCSignals
02-03-2011, 09:30 PM
.............

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2064/sleevedetail.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/i/sleevedetail.jpg/)





In this photo, it looks like the sleeve may have been let down once?

Kt Templar
02-03-2011, 09:46 PM
There is some merino on the sleeves. If that is what you are after.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9977/merinoonsleeve.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/merinoonsleeve.jpg/)

Kt Templar
02-03-2011, 09:49 PM
Example of how this jacket can look like it's changing. Note how the collar stand is really different between these 2 shots - shape, marking, edge. However, it's the SAME shot, same jacket.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h55m25s2.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h56m03s103.jpg


No, i'm not talking about that.

Look at the food sequence. The distressing on the collar changes on the non storm flap side. At times it can be exactly matched with the NH, other times it is differently marked.

Gunslinger
02-03-2011, 09:53 PM
Would you mind showing me, KT? Or if you could throw up more HN jacket shots that be great. The ones I posted are literally all I have access to, so I can't compare anything.

Kt Templar
02-03-2011, 10:16 PM
I don't have any more pics to give you.

Just watch the ToD DVD :).

The NH jacket is the one you see as he walks into the village after the food with Shortie and Willie. It's been identified beyond a shadow of a doubt. Marks, drape, distressing all match.

It's always been suggested that there were at least a couple of jackets as the later one has much more wrinkled sleeves.

PLATON
02-04-2011, 08:31 AM
Is it possible that the jacket in the last scene with the wrinkled sleeves is that same that NH had only that they could have wet it for the last scene and then when it dried the wrinkles dissapeared?

You know if you hang your jacket by a hanger in the closet the wrinkles go away because of the jacket weight pulling them down, and this jacket has been in storage for 30 years.


KT where is this jacket now?

Kt Templar
02-04-2011, 08:42 AM
Prop Store of London has the whole set in their collection now.

Gunslinger
02-04-2011, 09:31 PM
Some more Noel Howard jacket shots I scrounged up - if anyone else has any, please post 'em up.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/438827385_24010668b1_o.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/438827435_0c9af534c2_o.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/438827445_3f87688d34_o.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/frontleatherlh5.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/underarmleatheryv8.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/todjacketprpx9wu1.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/p_temple_11.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/g_nhoward_10.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/g_nhoward_09.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/l_veste_temple_10.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/l_veste_temple_09.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/l_veste_temple_08.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/g_nhoward_07.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/g_nhoward_01.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/l_veste_temple_07.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/g_nhoward_05.jpg

crismans
02-04-2011, 11:07 PM
Ah, now we're at my jacket. I'll look around and see if I have anything more of the NH jacket than what has been posted. It was proven, pretty conclusively to my mind that there are at least two different jackets. The NH jacket (like KT has said) was matched detail for distressing detail with one of the jackets. However, there was another jacket that differed in these distressing details (mainly in the amount, position of distressing) as well as the overall fit on Ford. If I remember correctly, the other jacket is seen when Indy and gang return back to the revived village (filmed first). That jacket fits more like a leather shirt.

This jacket has been accredited to Cooper since I entered the hobby. However, has anyone ever seen any definitive proof of this? I'm not doubting it, per se, but I was wondering where this accreditation came from.

HWaltonJonesJr.Phd
02-05-2011, 12:13 AM
There are a few more NH jacket pics here if you scroll down...

http://www.jones-jr.com/cost_veste_01.html#

Gunslinger
02-05-2011, 03:30 AM
Thanks mate. Added them to the pics above.

Gunslinger
02-05-2011, 12:18 PM
Part 2:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h54m02s241.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h54m02s241.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h54m26s254.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h54m26s254.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h55m16s195.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h55m16s195.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h55m40s204.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h55m40s204.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h57m08s44.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h57m08s44.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h58m22s55.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-21h58m22s55.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h00m54s32.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h00m54s32.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h01m45s26.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h01m45s26.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h03m15s172.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h03m15s172.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h04m19s26.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h04m19s26.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h04m42s21.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h04m42s21.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h05m03s229.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h05m03s229.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h08m11s10.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h08m11s10.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h08m33s25.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h08m33s25.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h09m18s194.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h09m18s194.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h09m42s199.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h09m42s199.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h09m53s37.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h09m53s37.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h11m02s226.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h11m02s226.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h12m13s165.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h12m13s165.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h12m43s221.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h12m43s221.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h13m46s77.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h13m46s77.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h15m46s248.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h15m46s248.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m16s56.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m16s56.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m25s134.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m25s134.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m42s50.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m42s50.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h17m09s59.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h17m09s59.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h17m57s16.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h17m57s16.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h19m14s42.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h19m14s42.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h20m22s202.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h20m22s202.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h20m36s89.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h20m36s89.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h21m55s31.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h21m55s31.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h23m51s234.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h23m51s234.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h25m06s236.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h25m06s236.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h26m21s194.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h26m21s194.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h27m37s191.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h27m37s191.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h29m00s254.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h29m00s254.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h30m13s234.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h30m13s234.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h30m41s0.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h30m41s0.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h32m42s135.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h32m42s135.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h34m31s249.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h34m31s249.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h35m21s246.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h35m21s246.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h37m30s172.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h37m30s172.jpg)

crismans
02-05-2011, 01:48 PM
I'll do a better job of putting these up later, but, as a quick reference point look at the difference in fit and degree of distressing in this jacket and the one(s) that appears in Gunslingers pics above:

http://www.theraider.net/showimage.php?ImageUrl=http://www.theraider.net/films/todoom/gallery/dvdscreenshots/395.jpg

http://www.theraider.net/showimage.php?ImageUrl=http://www.theraider.net/films/todoom/gallery/dvdscreenshots/393.jpg

Gunslinger
02-06-2011, 11:53 AM
Absolutely, Crisman. And check out how new and chunky this one looks - remember, the Elstree shoot was AFTER the location shots, so this looks like it has to be a new jacket to me. That would make it #3.

Gunslinger
02-06-2011, 12:01 PM
To illustrate KT's point about the different distressing on the collar, here are the 2 main jackets in ToD:

#1: "Noel Howard"
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h55m25s2.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h55m25s2.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h20m51s14.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h20m51s14.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h47m58s159.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h47m58s159.jpg)

#2:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h46m10s90.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h46m10s90.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h04m19s26.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h04m19s26.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m25s134.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m25s134.jpg)

Gunslinger
02-11-2011, 11:58 AM
Part 3:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-21h56m29s215.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-21h56m29s215.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-21h56m59s248.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-21h56m59s248.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-21h57m19s122.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-21h57m19s122.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-21h57m35s98.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-21h57m35s98.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h00m36s128.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h00m36s128.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h04m25s120.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h04m25s120.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h05m06s212.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h05m06s212.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h05m47s175.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h05m47s175.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h08m59s44.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h08m59s44.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h09m34s118.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h09m34s118.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h10m55s143.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h10m55s143.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h14m25s207.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h14m25s207.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h15m07s83.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h15m07s83.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h27m00s95.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h27m00s95.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h27m32s179.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h27m32s179.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h27m44s16.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h27m44s16.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h28m36s36.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h28m36s36.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h29m36s91.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h29m36s91.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h29m46s214.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h29m46s214.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h30m35s175.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h30m35s175.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h31m17s105.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h31m17s105.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h32m11s156.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h32m11s156.jpg)

HWaltonJonesJr.Phd
02-11-2011, 12:33 PM
I love the look of the jacket in the last scene... in that last pic you can see it's almost in pieces :o.

Gunslinger
02-13-2011, 02:50 AM
SO if you look at a bunch of the grabs above or watch Temple of Doom, you'll notice that unlike the Raiders jacket, which has a definite sweep from back to front along the hem line, the Temple of Doom jacket is pretty much level with the ground - almost completely horizontal. As seen here:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/ToDBackSweep.jpg

When you look at the front length compared to Raiders, it looks pretty much identical - so 23" - but the overall impression is of a longer jacket, even though the front ISN'T.

So, I'm guessing a big part of that impression is due to the "sweep" - the length of back compared to front. The sweep in Raiders is due to the screwed up collar / shoulder construction, but think part of the impression of extra length in the ToD jacket it is also due to a tiny bit of "real" extra length on top of that. I can't remember off the top of my head what the back length of Ford's Temple of Doom jacket was, but if his Raiders was 23", the Temple of Doom one would have to be 26" - allowing 2" for a non-screwy construction, and maybe an extra half an inch or 1" at the bottom if that makes any sense.

Thoughts?

RCSignals
02-13-2011, 03:11 AM
You are correct about the back being longer than te Raiders because of the Raiders construction. The Raiders collar is larger and the extra length is taken up in the back (so back cut lower for the collar)
But Ford's ToD jacket back length was as I recall from Peter, 25" not including the collar stand.

My Ford sized ToD from Wested has a back length of 25"

edited to say I just re-measured and the Wested ToD back length is 25.5". but it is lambskin and has a lot of 'stretch'

Gunslinger
02-13-2011, 04:10 AM
Actually, for a ToD jacket thread, it does beg the question as to what the measurements of Ford's jacket were.

To my eye, it really does look like the ToD is basically exactly the same as the Raiders apart from the back. Shoulder width looks identical, etc.

RCSignals
02-13-2011, 04:14 AM
the measurements are pretty close, yes, except the back length.

all of the movies 'ford size' jackets have about the same front length, with the KOTCS actually being shortest.

Tibor
02-27-2011, 11:58 PM
It's always hard to believe KOTCS jacket was the shortest ... I'm not disputing those in the know, but on screen it just looks so much longer... (Ford wasn't doing the hike-your-pants-up old guy thing, was he?) Anyway, I'd have put ROTLA and LC as the shortest, TOD next and KOTCS longest, just by my gut feel. A lot of variation in the cut and drape that I'm sure plays into it...

RCSignals
02-28-2011, 05:06 AM
It's always hard to believe KOTCS jacket was the shortest ... I'm not disputing those in the know, but on screen it just looks so much longer... (Ford wasn't doing the hike-your-pants-up old guy thing, was he?) Anyway, I'd have put ROTLA and LC as the shortest, TOD next and KOTCS longest, just by my gut feel. A lot of variation in the cut and drape that I'm sure plays into it...


The KOTCS was only shortest in front. Not by much but it was.

The Character
02-28-2011, 10:28 AM
It is the standard Hollywood thing ... remember roger moore's short safari jackets and long trousers with high waistband to make him look taller? .. US pants i notice tend to be worn/cut higher anyway than their Euro counterparts ... but i agree they didn't look hoiked up that much if at all in KOTCS .. especially in the opening jacketless scenes but if you want your leading man to look taller and thinner then shorten the jacket ..... in TOD Ford had lost so much wieght you can see the shoulders hang right over and lower on either side as its too big for him ... or at least one of them is ...

Mac
02-28-2011, 03:17 PM
The KOTCS was only shortest in front. Not by much but it was.

I thought the KOTCS was slightly longer than the Raiders along the storm flap. Per Asiana Jones' photos comparing the 000/888 prototype with a Ford spec KOTCS (KOTCS top, Raiders bottom):

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/HarrisonsSpecs-CSontopRaidersonbottom.jpg

Is it a worn effective length (cut?) vs. unworn measurement thing?

- Mac

RCSignals
02-28-2011, 05:29 PM
unworn measurement

RCSignals
09-03-2011, 08:48 PM
I suppose there will always be disinformation about his jacket. I keep reading the same things asked, most of it comes from write-ups and discussions elsewhere.
People still think the jacket was a copy of a stunt jacket, or jackets left over from Raiders, or made in France, or made by who knows what/who.
All this despite an actual jacket having been known about for years, and later able to be reproduced by Wested.

It is obviously not a left over Raiders jacket, but just as obviously shares basic design. I've yet to see any evidence provided of a Raiders jacket having been used in Temple of Doom despite the rhetoric.

What is not known is who made the jackets. Peter of Wested stated he did not make the original jacket he was able to get in hand to reproduce.
There has been suggestion that the Temple of Doom movie jackets were made by Cooper Sportswear, although Neil Cooper isn't admitting to it, and other than jackets made after the movie for Disney and "Willard and Ward" as well as Cooper labeled jackets, there is no evidence to support a Cooper made jacket for the movie. The post movie jackets for Disney etc are not the same pattern. Why would that be?

What is your assumption?

crismans
09-03-2011, 10:20 PM
Much like Titus said in another thread, I think you can take all that we think we know (ie that from other site write-ups and the like) and throw them out the window. The person that has provided most of the accepted info on these jackets has been proven time and time again to be a major liar. That bears repeating: he has been caught in more than one lie on the history of this gear (among many other topics). Therefore, we can't believe anything he's told us without independent verification.

So, we really know nothing about this jacket other than what we can see. It's not a Raiders jacket but shares similiarities.

PLATON
05-06-2012, 05:53 PM
KT you have handled it, can you remind me?

Kt Templar
05-06-2012, 08:12 PM
Painted gloss black.

2 pin claw buckles. German trouser waist adjusters. You can buy them from 'At the front'.

djd
05-06-2012, 08:23 PM
I have a couple of waistcoats with very similar buckles on the back strap :-)

Kt Templar
05-06-2012, 08:48 PM
Yup, a certain vintage of waistcoat buckles are similar, though maybe slightly smaller. (Not calling you an golden oldie or anything DJD...) ;)

The ironic thing is Peter had to source them from the US, even thought they must have been off the shelf items in the 80's in London.

We did eventually find some super quality ones in Germany, of all places, but they only made them in silver.

djd
05-06-2012, 09:03 PM
It's true that they are vintage waistcoats.... It's not as if I've had therms since the 50s or anything.... :-)

neutronbomb
05-11-2012, 12:34 AM
This bothers me that the NH looks so much like the Kurtz leather.

vs film
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-11-22h32m11s156.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/Replica%20-%20Keppler%20Prototype%20and%20early%20Westeds/kurtz_7.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4518/nhjacketcopy.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/Replica%20-%20Keppler%20Prototype%20and%20early%20Westeds/kurtz_6.jpg


There is some merino on the sleeves. If that is what you are after.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9977/merinoonsleeve.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/merinoonsleeve.jpg/)

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/g_nhoward_01.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/Replica%20-%20Keppler%20Prototype%20and%20early%20Westeds/kurtz_2.jpg

and the one wings has
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/underarmleatheryv8.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/Replica%20-%20Keppler%20Prototype%20and%20early%20Westeds/2831307594_463f01bf6b.jpg

indydude18
05-21-2012, 07:59 PM
Does anyone have a picture of the Berman and Nathan tag from the Noel Howard ToD jacket?!

Mac
05-21-2012, 08:15 PM
Here you go:

http://www.jones-jr.com/images_cost_veste/g_veste_nh_peter_02.jpg

K-Wad
05-21-2012, 08:16 PM
Mac,

Your photo is not showing up.

Mac
05-21-2012, 08:26 PM
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/g_veste_nh_peter_02.jpg

Now?

K-Wad
05-21-2012, 08:36 PM
There it is!
Thanks for the photo.
I've been looking for a picture of a screen used label for a while now.

indydude18
05-21-2012, 09:00 PM
Suh-weet! Thanks a million Mac! :whip:

PLATON
05-22-2012, 10:44 AM
way too much distressing on the ToD jacket which is hard to replicate

Gunslinger
05-22-2012, 11:09 AM
The key to the ToD will be getting the perfect leather that distresses just right - its gotta have the right undertones and ability to scuff up nicely.

crismans
05-22-2012, 11:39 PM
Like neutronbomb said a while ago, I've always thought the ToD jacket had a lot of similarities to the Bantu Wind jacket. That's why, when Patterson first brought up the idea that Cooper made the first Raiders jacket, I didn't have a problem with it. If he was referring to the Bantu Wind. Of course, everything's up in the air now as to the history of the jackets. RC and I used to have a good relationship with Sarge and Weston has a good one now. Perhaps one of us could interview Sarge as to Cooper's involvement with ToD?

At any rate, Holt and I did a ton of research (in fairness Holt did most of the heavy lifting and I worked on putting it into a concise package) on this jacket when we were working on the Wings ToD project. I'll dig up those notes and post them if people want to see them.

Gunslinger
05-23-2012, 01:09 AM
I wouldn't be making ANY assumptions that Cooper had anything to do with the actual film jacket itself at all. IS there any actual evidence that he did anything but the consumer jackets?

fifthchamber
05-23-2012, 01:31 AM
Like neutronbomb said a while ago, I've always thought the ToD jacket had a lot of similarities to the Bantu Wind jacket. That's why, when Patterson first brought up the idea that Cooper made the first Raiders jacket, I didn't have a problem with it. If he was referring to the Bantu Wind. Of course, everything's up in the air now as to the history of the jackets. RC and I used to have a good relationship with Sarge and Weston has a good one now. Perhaps one of us could interview Sarge as to Cooper's involvement with ToD?

At any rate, Holt and I did a ton of research (in fairness Holt did most of the heavy lifting and I worked on putting it into a concise package) on this jacket when we were working on the Wings ToD project. I'll dig up those notes and post them if people want to see them.


I'd love to see what you'd worked out for sure... :)

crismans
05-23-2012, 01:49 AM
I wouldn't be making ANY assumptions that Cooper had anything to do with the actual film jacket itself at all. IS there any actual evidence that he did anything but the consumer jackets?


I wasn't. ;) I thought a good point of the interview would be to get some actual evidence that Cooper had something to do with it. All we have right now is the word of a known liar.

K-Wad
05-23-2012, 02:40 AM
The TOD jackets were commissioned through Berman's, correct?
It makes more sense to me that Berman's would have gotten someone local to make the jackets, as they did with Peter for the Raiders jackets.

Does anyone know when Cooper was given the license to make the replicas?
Was it before or after the film had been released?

PLATON
05-24-2012, 01:04 PM
Try reading the Indygear ToD write ups
It's so complex
What do you make out of it?

crismans
05-29-2012, 10:23 PM
Try reading the Indygear ToD write ups
It's so complex
What do you make out of it?


I've not read those in quite a while. More about supposed legal wrangles than the jacket itself.

At any rate, I think we need to ignore those (not saying you thought we should go by them, Platon) and start from scratch as much as we can. Since the person who wrote those honesty is HIGHLY questionable, I doubt everything that's in them.

Oildale Jones
06-01-2012, 03:55 AM
I'm so confused. The last I heard, they made a bunch of jackets and HF refused to wear them so they had to use an original jacket from Raiders, plus another jacket from somewhere else (another Raiders stunt, maybe?), accounting for at least two jackets (one tight, one loose). One of the jackets is so beat up that I have a hard time believing it's NOT an original Raiders jacket. (But how did it get so severely distressed in the intervening years?)

The idol grab jacket had a noticeable "scrubbed" spot on the right side of the yoke; there's a similar spot on the beat-to-s### ToD jacket, which proves nothing, but still. What I'm really not getting is what that newer (NH?) jacket is supposed to be. I've never seen a jacket with distress like that in any of the movies. It looks to me like a severely (and poorly) distressed replica (no offense) and the unsubtle distressing looks more like what we see on the LC jacket.

Up until recently I didn't really care about the ToD jacket, but it's starting to grow on me, and I do love the thrill of the chase.

—Know what? Never mind me. I need to lurk moar before I start offering my uninformed opinion. I'll just be over in the jacket research threads if you need me.

PLATON
06-08-2012, 03:37 PM
Painted gloss black.

KT, I don't think they were glossy black on the NH jacket. From some photo I have seen they look like dark gray matte.
Maybe you mean that the ATF buckles are glossy black?

PLATON
10-05-2012, 03:09 PM
What's that thing sticking out from his pocket?

http://s9.postimage.org/uodrp4xxb/vlcsnap_2011_02_05_21h57m08s44.png

(if you use the brightness in the pic shows more clearly)

1. a lighter
2. a condom
3. a candy bar
4. the glove from Raiders
5. a folded page from the script in case he forget his words
6. don't know
7. none of the above
8. bugger off

what's with the torn pockets?
and then wonder where his change went

JeffDJ
02-20-2013, 09:42 PM
I really like the ToD jacket. I love the way it looks and moves, particularly in the daylight scenes on-location. It definitely looks awesome in the last scenes back in the village. I also like that the distressing looked more natural, not as over-the-top as it was in LC.

indydude18
02-20-2013, 10:11 PM
Me too. It's probably my favorite jacket after the Raiders jacket. Too bad Wested discontinued them!

knibs7
09-03-2014, 01:59 AM
Ok so I have this theory that in some of the Raiders truck chase Terry Leonard is wearing the Temple of Doom jacket. I'm basing this off of some behind the scenes pictures. And if you're like me, this thought has popped into your head before: "Man, the Temple of Doom jacket looks so much more beat up than any of the other jackets in the films. I wonder why that is." Well, if my theory is correct, then having the jacket dragged behind a truck would be a good explanation. Over on COW some members agree with me, but then some members, mainly the MODs, think I'm crazy. So, I just wanted to get some opinions from a different forum.

Here are the pics I'm talking about and I've pointed out some areas that seem to have the same distressing marks. Some say that it's just one of the Wilson jackets and that very well may be true... But I'm not much for coincidences when it comes to distressing marks.

Anyway, this is what I'm talking about...

http://s263.photobucket.com/user/knibs7/media/TODjacketcomp_zpsd2fe301f.jpg.html]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/knibs7/TODjacketcomp_zpsd2fe301f.jpg[/url]

You can even see in the circled area where it's the same "bald" space

Kyle

knibs7
09-03-2014, 02:07 AM
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/knibs7/todsleeve_zps5c904f3f.jpg (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/knibs7/media/todsleeve_zps5c904f3f.jpg.html)

Indiego Jones
09-03-2014, 03:33 PM
Knibs, thanks for sharing this !!!!

I think this is a mayor find.
IMO it changes many facts we had for granted on the ToD jacket.

I'll try to get more screencaps from the Raiders DVD bonus material.

TheExit148
09-03-2014, 03:43 PM
Here's an even bigger find, if it's true. Have a look at this pic, and look at the buckle, and the way the pleat opens at the bottom of the jacket. This looks to be the TOD jacket hands down. Even the collar looks like the TOD jacket. How did we miss this?!?

Knibs, pointing out the TOD jacket looks to be the stunt jacket is huge!

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Jacket%20Pictures/Jacket_Dock1.jpg

TheExit148
09-03-2014, 03:51 PM
Either the prototype jacket is the TOD jacket, or the TOD jacket took a ton of details from the prototype jacket. Starting to see a lot of similarities.

Indiego Jones
09-03-2014, 04:04 PM
Also the zipper.
Not the YKK nº 5 on the Raiders HERO jackets.
The one on this jacket is nº 8 or 10. Like the ToD jacket.

AMAZING!

neutronbomb
09-03-2014, 07:07 PM
I've merged the new TOD jacket thread into the one that was already stickied. Lot's of photos and discussion about it already. Check it out and read through as I believe there is some discussion about the similarities between The Prototype Jacket and the TOD jacket. Also, here's a link to The Prototype Jacket thread where there's quite a few pics showing where it appears in the movie and it's also the Promo Jacket used in almost all the promo shots.
The Prototype Jacket (http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/256-The-Prototype-Jacket-(1-of-3-jackets-used-in-ROTLA))

Ram Man
09-03-2014, 07:11 PM
This is very convincing. Has it ever been confirmed that the Noel Howard jacket was actually ToD screen used or was that just a claim? It could have been given to him after Raiders. It looks very much like Leonard's stunt jacket and now I wonder if it wasn't the prototype that the Temple jackets were made from. Cuz to be honest the NH jacket IMO doesn't resemble what I see in the ToD as far as markings and distressing go. It definitely is ToD style though.

Indiego Jones
09-03-2014, 10:13 PM
I've merged the new TOD jacket thread into the one that was already stickied. Lot's of photos and discussion about it already. Check it out and read through as I believe there is some discussion about the similarities between The Prototype Jacket and the TOD jacket. Also, here's a link to The Prototype Jacket thread where there's quite a few pics showing where it appears in the movie and it's also the Promo Jacket used in almost all the promo shots.
The Prototype Jacket (http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/256-The-Prototype-Jacket-(1-of-3-jackets-used-in-ROTLA))
What knibs is pointing is that the RAIDERS Prototype jacket, 4 years later became one of the ToD HERO jackets.
Not only that is REMARKABLE by itself, but now we have new clues about which could be the "mistery" workshop that provided the jackets for ToD.

And there's an extra on this very same jacket. Something knibs also find out on a BTS picture.
That jacket is in LC too!!!
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/knibs7/Indybuckle_zpsb710eea1.jpg (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/knibs7/media/Indybuckle_zpsb710eea1.jpg.html)

Ram Man
09-03-2014, 10:37 PM
What knibs is pointing is that the RAIDERS Prototype jacket, 4 years later became one of the ToD HERO jackets.
Not only that is REMARKABLE by itself, but now we have new clues about which could be the "mistery" workshop that provided the jackets for ToD.

And there's an extra on this very same jacket. Something knibs also find out on a BTS picture.
That jacket is in LC too!!!
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/knibs7/Indybuckle_zpsb710eea1.jpg (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/knibs7/media/Indybuckle_zpsb710eea1.jpg.html)

There's no question this jacket has made its appearance in more than one film. What I am wondering is if it has been confirmed as a ToD HERO jacket or just a behind the scenes/stunt jacket.

crismans
09-04-2014, 02:15 AM
KT might be a good one to address your question, Ram Man. I seem to remember a thread eons ago where someone (Holt maybe?) pointed out a lot of similar marks between the Howard jacket and the jacket Ford has on when he enters the village for the first time.

knibs7
09-04-2014, 02:45 AM
Yes, the NH jacket was the jacket we see when Indy is first learning about the Sankara stones

Ram Man
09-04-2014, 01:17 PM
Excellent! That clears things up a bit for me. Thanks guys.

neutronbomb
09-05-2014, 02:46 AM
If you haven't already you guys really should check out the first pages of this thread. I've never gotten around to looking at the TOD jacket. The one time I pointed out what I saw were some texture similarities to Raiders when the TOD thread got started, the idea got shut down by KT I think. Screen noise and no one's said anything about TOD having texture, etc. As far as the Wilson jackets goes. That's all bullshit from COW, Patterson, etc. If they still have that in their write-ups...then that's just laughable. Whatever you do..don't listen to the mods over there.

Great job Knibs for what appears to be a phenomenal catch and for sharing with us over here at F&G :whip: In taking a closer look, this is the jacket in TOD that I think is The Prototype Jacket from Raiders. I haven't put any of the time into it like I have with Raiders, but here's what I'm seeing:

:toast: to Gunslinger for all the great photos he posted previously.
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/438821386_4c48b5a687_o.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/438821790_158ab52fd9_o.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h44m41s235.jpg

Gunslinger
09-05-2014, 03:25 AM
So, sorry, the upshot of the theory is that the Bantu Wind / truck stunt jacket is that specific ToD jacket?

I can't make out what the matches are beyond the collar shape and pleat config.

neutronbomb
09-05-2014, 04:25 AM
Yes, I think so. At this point anyway. If it holds up under further scrutiny, then Knibs is a badass for sure on this one.

Check out the bottom eating out of the bowl photo in my previous post and compare it against the sitting dockside Bantu wind BTS photo. Compare the right sleeves. And then, also compare the right collar stand and it's surrounding features of the 3 TOD photos from my previous post against the right collar stand and it's surrounding features of The Prototype Jacket analysis I did in The Prototype Jacket thread. The two warps/folds/creases on the collar stand. The exact lay of the collar/collar flap. How the collar is positioned around Indy's neck. Do an overlay. It looks exact to me. The way the top front of the zipper lays open naturally. And then the texture of the jacket itself as a whole. And also, look at the texture of the collar, especially the TOD eating from the bowl photo, compared to the The Prototype Jacket's BTS photo we talked about in the rare photos thread. I'll find and post that one up.

It looks like it to me anyway so far without a full analysis. But not the Noel Howard jacket or the other one in TOD.

EDIT: This is a compare I did awhile back that includes part of the BTS under the truck Prototype Jacket from the rare photos thread I mentioned above. The texture that can be seen on the back of the collar compared to the texture on the right side of the collar of the TOD eating from the bowl photo looks the same to me.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Prototype%20Jacket/undertruckprototypecompare_zpsc01004c8.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/user/neutronbomb_photos/media/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Prototype%20Jacket/undertruckprototypecompare_zpsc01004c8.jpg.html)

Weston
09-05-2014, 05:26 AM
There's no question this jacket has made its appearance in more than one film. What I am wondering is if it has been confirmed as a ToD HERO jacket or just a behind the scenes/stunt jacket.

Would Vic Armstrong have insight into this?

neutronbomb
09-05-2014, 03:59 PM
From this thread of Vic armstrong responding to The Character:
http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/290-Quick-Reply-from-Vic-Armstrong?highlight=armstrong+interview

It makes sense that he would refer to the jacket TL wears as a regular jacket as it is The Prototype Jacket. And that it wasn't tore up in the truck drag because of the trench.



I left a message on Vic Armstrong's website forum/discussion area and he kindly got back with the below:

Hi Vic,

Great fan of your work and particularly on the Indiana Jones movies … I was wondering if you ever do any of the conventions or signing sessions such as London Comic Con etc? These are very popular and i’m sure some of your recollections and anecdotes would go down a storm.

On a different yet tricky subject as there is some debate over this do you happen to have answers to the following:

1/ How many leather jackets were used in the making of the Raiders of the lost Ark film?…

2/ Was the jacket used for the ‘truck drag’ sequence in anyway different from the others?.. tougher or a different material?

3/ Were any of those reused in Temple of Doom? There is a story that Harrison Ford hated his Temple of Doom jackets so much he nicked one you’d kept from Raiders to do most of the scenes in Temple?

I know weird questions but there is a whole mass of Indiana jones fans out there who would love to know the answers to this plus … we might as well ask someone who was actually there and wearing them.

Anyway I hope your filming career is still belting along at its usual breakneck pace and i’d love to see an interview with you on your site sometime with fan submitted questions?

Best regards

Al



Vic Says:
August 19th, 2010 at 11:17 pm
Hi Al, thanks for the questions and will try and answer a few of them.

I would do signings and I have been asked a lot of times but i never seem to get the time off, I did one in Germany and it was great fun meeting and chatting with all you action fans.

We had loads of jackets for the movies as the action sequences tend to tear them up a bit as far as different style between movies I honestly do not know and cannot remember any changes.

The Jacket Terry used under the truck was a regular one and he had the ground dug instead of reinforcing the jacket which would have looked wrong.

I do know the hats changed from Indy 2 to Indy 3 the originals were made by Herbert Johnson in Bond St and the Indy 3 hats were made by Stetson.
Hope this helps and we may meet at a book signing yet as I have a book coming out next year.

There ya have it! .... all the same.

link below

http://www.vicarmstrong.com/2007/07/28/indiana-jones-3/

knibs7
09-10-2014, 01:33 AM
I just find too many similarities for this not to be the same jacket. IDK... JMO

Indiego Jones
09-10-2014, 04:07 PM
I did this caps from the Bonus Material DVD.
I don't know if is just my imagination, but, I can see many similarities too.

I can see the ToD small pocket almost on every capture.

I didn't pointed the coincidences on the pictures, because every time I tried to, I ruined the image.

Please, everyone feel free to use this images to show whatever you see on them.

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/terry01_zpse58cd21c.png (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/terry01_zpse58cd21c.png.html)

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/terry02_zps6648bf29.png (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/terry02_zps6648bf29.png.html)

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/terry03_zps551a99a2.png (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/terry03_zps551a99a2.png.html)

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/terry04_zps0b58b409.png (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/terry04_zps0b58b409.png.html)

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/bantu_zpscbc07a5f.png (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/bantu_zpscbc07a5f.png.html)

neutronbomb
09-10-2014, 04:32 PM
Very nice! I'll have more to add also. Currently gathering compare photos to put it all together. Anyone read cows TOD writeup by Patterson recently.

Ram Man
09-11-2014, 12:28 AM
Appreciate very much the efforts and time commitment to present these details for everyone's viewing pleasure

knibs7
09-11-2014, 01:59 AM
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/knibs7/TODvsTerry_zps9525b80c.jpg (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/knibs7/media/TODvsTerry_zps9525b80c.jpg.html)

This is what I see... The collar folds/marks appear to be almost identical. And the pockets, collar and yoke all seem to be pretty similar to the 4 pics of Terry. Harrison is obviously bent over in the reference picture and his arm isn't extended quite the way Terry's is, but it still seems REALLY close.

I don't know... maybe I'm seeing things????

hovitos loincloth
09-11-2014, 10:16 PM
Did they unsew the action pleat for Temple of Doom then?

knibs7
09-12-2014, 01:26 AM
Did they unsew the action pleat for Temple of Doom then?

What are you talking about? The pleats look the exact same on both jackets

hovitos loincloth
09-12-2014, 06:10 AM
On the temple photo presented the pleat is visible and there is no continuation of under arm creases into the back panel as they are seperated by the pleat. On the Raiders pic the underarm creases continue straight into the back as they aren't broken by the pleat. That's what I'm talking about.

neutronbomb
09-12-2014, 04:29 PM
This looks promising.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/TOD_compare01_zps9c865f75.jpg~original

hovitos loincloth
09-12-2014, 06:29 PM
Different zip tho'?

JeffDJ
09-12-2014, 08:01 PM
Interesting ToD photo above - that looks like they're at the rock wall set (after the mine car chase), yet Ford is wearing the jacket. But since he still has the shoulder bag, it would have been before is final tussle with Mola Ram. After their arrival at Pankot, we don't see him wearing the jacket outdoors again until they're back at the village at the end of the movie. Maybe he just threw it on between takes to stay warm? Neat!

neutronbomb
09-12-2014, 09:53 PM
I was trying to look at that also, but having a hard time seeing it clearly in the Raiders photo. I think it's the prototype jacket in the Raiders photo though and If so there are lots of photos that show it having the larger size zipper. I've been looking to see if any show the zipper not going all the way to the bottom, but no luck yet.


Different zip tho'?

crismans
09-12-2014, 10:07 PM
I can see many of the similarities between Leonard's jacket and the Temple jacket in question. But on that Raider's promo pic you posted, NB, that pocket looks awfully big. Perspective maybe?

neutronbomb
09-12-2014, 11:01 PM
Yes those are the two things that bother me also the zipper and the pocket. But I can't tell for sure. The thing is, both sides of the collar look like a very good match to the Prototype jacket.

knibs7
09-12-2014, 11:39 PM
On the temple photo presented the pleat is visible and there is no continuation of under arm creases into the back panel as they are seperated by the pleat. On the Raiders pic the underarm creases continue straight into the back as they aren't broken by the pleat. That's what I'm talking about.

You can clearly see that neither of the jackets have the pleats sewn. It just looks like that on the Raiders jacket, but you can see the top shadow of the pleat starting

hovitos loincloth
09-13-2014, 06:17 AM
No, I can see a small shadow where the pleat should start. I can't see any continuation of evidence of a pleat beyond that. Even if the pleat was stretched out completely flat around the torso to encompass padding etc the shadows would be different. The shadow you seem to be hanging the argument on could be a popped seam. I was under the impression that a "sample" jacket without pleats was used in some stunt sequences or has that notion been debunked?

crismans
09-13-2014, 06:31 PM
I was under the impression that a "sample" jacket without pleats was used in some stunt sequences or has that notion been debunked?

I believe that particular "fact" was put out by a person whose honesty was shown to be in serious question some time ago. I personally have taken the stance that, if it comes from that particular source, it's to be highly doubted unless corroborated elsewhere.

Indiego Jones
09-13-2014, 08:10 PM
I was under the impression that a "sample" jacket without pleats was used in some stunt sequences or has that notion been debunked?
No prove to believe that notion is true.
IMO Just another lie told by someone who was exposed as a pathological liar.

hovitos loincloth
09-13-2014, 10:20 PM
I believe that particular "fact" was put out by a person whose honesty was shown to be in serious question some time ago. I personally have taken the stance that, if it comes from that particular source, it's to be highly doubted unless corroborated elsewhere.
Yeah,I appreciate the provenance of jacket lore is kinda muddy. That not withstanding,in my eyes, the jackets being compared, although sharing similiarities, aren't the same.Jmo.

Indiego Jones
09-17-2014, 05:50 PM
This looks promising.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/TOD_compare01_zps9c865f75.jpg~original

IMO this 2 jackets are "brothers".
Same pattern, different details (like pocket sizing, zipper)


http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/knibs7/TODvsTerry_zps9525b80c.jpg (http://s263.photobucket.com/user/knibs7/media/TODvsTerry_zps9525b80c.jpg.html)

This is what I see... The collar folds/marks appear to be almost identical. And the pockets, collar and yoke all seem to be pretty similar to the 4 pics of Terry. Harrison is obviously bent over in the reference picture and his arm isn't extended quite the way Terry's is, but it still seems REALLY close.

I don't know... maybe I'm seeing things????

I'm seeing things too! ???
On the caps I posted, I can see:
* ToD sizing pockets
* ToD collar/collar-stand configuration
* bottom pleats seam
* wide yoke
* nº 8 or 10 aluminium zipper

neutronbomb
09-26-2014, 03:34 PM
Apparently US Wings was the secret supplier :o Thanks to RCSignals for the catch.


THE "EQUALIZER" JACKET! US Wings will be in the upcoming new movie, "The Equalizer." The main character, portrayed by Denzel Washington, will be wearing the US Wings Adventure Jacket (shown above).

With US Wings' dedication to authenticity, the product supplied by US Wings is respected in both military and movie circles. US Wings has supplied jackets to HBO for films about the Flying Tigers and Tuskegee Airmen. Angela Williams, daughter of an original Tuskegee Airman, Rusty Williams, and co-executive producer stated: "We felt strongly that the jackets in the movie be authentic. US Wings was by far the best source we found for quality A-2 jackets made in America." US Wings has also supplied various styles of jackets for many TV shows including "24" as well as big-screen movies, including "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom," "Behind Enemy Lines," "Dogs of War," "Space Cowboys," "The 6th Day," "The Last Stand" and "Kerosene Cowboys." Many television and movie celebrities wear US Wings jackets. Jon Voight, John Travolta, Clint Eastwood, Angelina Jolie, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Hugh Laurie, Jimmy Fallon, Greta Van Susteren, Dave Letterman, as well as singers Toby Keith, Eric Clapton, Lee Greenwood, Marc Anthony and Erica Lane are customers.

For more information, go to our US Wings In The Movies page and don't forget to check out the "Equalizer" Adventure Jacket.

IfAdventureHasAName
09-26-2014, 04:00 PM
How can U.S. Wings make a claim of supplying the jackets for "Temple of Doom" without supplying any proof?!? :lies: :doh:

Are "Indiana Jones" fans and gearheads, along with the public, just suppose to take Sgt. Hack's word like taking the word of Todd Hayes aka "Patterson" aka "Marcus60"?!?

And, without any proof provided, and this may have covered somewhere but, I may have missed it, how is U.S. Wings able to make that claim without any repercussions from Lucasfilm or Paramount or, now, Disney?!?

After that whole U.S. Wings and COW debacle, as far as I am concerned, U.S. Wings is about as credible as any information provided on the "IndyGear" website. Meaning...:lies: :hellno: :lame: :stfu:

And so much for U.S. Wings producing replica jackets from each of the "Indiana Jones" films. :rolleyes:

And I really don't feel like paying almost $1,000 for a non custom jacket regardless of the leather skin being used.

neutronbomb
09-26-2014, 05:00 PM
Hear..hear :toast:

knibs7
09-26-2014, 05:10 PM
Since we're on the subject of USW, does anybody know why people on COW are so obsessed with them? Personally, I rank USW LAST when it comes to SA Indy jackets. Yet, for some reason, they act like every new jacket USW comes out with is an exact copy of the screen used jackets. :wtf:

neutronbomb
09-26-2014, 05:40 PM
Payola!

As seen in the thread on page 3 (or 1 depending if your settings are descending or ascending) and throughout other threads in the Last Stand section.

hovitos loincloth
09-26-2014, 08:35 PM
USW stuff always strikes me as souless old man jackets but seem appeal to a certain demographic because of their 'Murica connotation.

HENRY JONES JR.
09-27-2014, 01:04 AM
Could they be stretching the truth by saying they supplied jackets to INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM, when perhaps they made licenced replica jackets for the consumer market? If not, then I don't know what they are talking about. It's all I could come up with.

Weston
09-27-2014, 11:32 PM
As most of you know, Wings sends me a jacket now and then, usually for pictures, sometimes just for the hell of it. Sarge has been a good friend to my family over the last few years, so some of the comments here do sting. If you've read my posts, you know where I stand on all of this but I thought it might be worth considering this.

When Wings launched the Legend jacket, they had their lawyer John T. meet with Lucasfilm lawyers. After that meeting, the wording in their ad was changed to omit any direct reference to ROTLA. However, the TOD claim they have been making for years has never changed. That leads me to believed that they must have some solid ground to stand on or that claim would have been shut down after that meeting.

neutronbomb
09-28-2014, 01:00 AM
Thank you for the post. Glad to hear your experience with us wings has been positive. Do you know if they have any documentation on making jackets that were worn in TOD.

Tibor
09-28-2014, 02:19 AM
As most of you know, Wings sends me a jacket now and then, usually for pictures, sometimes just for the hell of it. Sarge has been a good friend to my family over the last few years, so some of the comments here do sting. If you've read my posts, you know where I stand on all of this but I thought it might be worth considering this.

When Wings launched the Legend jacket, they had their lawyer John T. meet with Lucasfilm lawyers. After that meeting, the wording in their ad was changed to omit any direct reference to ROTLA. However, the TOD claim they have been making for years has never changed. That leads me to believed that they must have some solid ground to stand on or that claim would have been shut down after that meeting.


I'm more inclined to believe that Lucasfilm had no proof of who made the jackets, and couldn't disprove any claims. The best evidence I've seem is the recent indication that they were leftovers from Raiders and Wested probably has the strongest case.

IfAdventureHasAName
09-28-2014, 03:15 AM
http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/742-The-Indiana-Jones-and-the-Temple-of-Doom-Jacket/page7

As a picture provided by "Fortune and Glory" member "mac" on the 7th page of this thread, it shows the label on the jacket that Noel Howard had in his possession that, as we all know, was loaned by his estate to Wested Leather.

So unless someone from or connected to U.S. Wings worked at Berman and Nathans, and, again, after that whole debacle with COW...with all due respect Fortune and Glory member "Weston"...unless solid proof is presented, not believing anything that U.S. Wings claims or says.

Weston
09-28-2014, 03:46 AM
Thank you for the post. Glad to hear your experience with us wings has been positive. Do you know if they have any documentation on making jackets that were worn in TOD.

I have no idea. I just thought it curious that the TOD claim remains after direct reference to ROTLA was changed. Beyond that I don't have anymore knowledge on it than anyone else.

HENRY JONES JR.
09-29-2014, 01:49 AM
Hi Weston! Would it be possible, being you are friends with Sarge, that you could let him know about this website, and perhaps ask him about the TOD connection, and what he knows? If you think that you wouldn't be comfortable doing that, then that's o.k.. :)

P.S. I own two U.S. WINGS Indy jackets, and I like 'em!

-HJJ

Weston
09-29-2014, 09:40 PM
I'll see if I can get some more information on it. If I turn up anything new, I'll be glad to share it.

Gunslinger
09-29-2014, 10:42 PM
My guess is that USW just did the ~licensed~ jackets for ToD and that's their loophole for spruiking they made "Indy's" jacket.

hovitos loincloth
09-30-2014, 06:51 AM
That's a big loophole but I suppose if it sells a few jackets to mugs then it's a fair business practice.:)

djd
09-30-2014, 09:15 AM
I was impressed with the USW jacket that I owned and Weston always looks good in them. It's just their business practices that put me off them. The debacle around the launch of the Legend was not impressive....

hovitos loincloth
09-30-2014, 03:38 PM
To be fair to USW I don't think alluding claims of provenance between films and jackets is entirely exclusive to their business!

deadseascrolls
09-30-2014, 04:17 PM
That is a big loophole alright and misleading. It taints the reputation of Mr. Botwright of Wested Leather who claims to have done the same but has shown proof to back up his claims. I think it would be proper of US Wings to add "licensed" to their claim. Otherwise its very misleading and would be a turn off for me doing business with them. I prefer honesty in a listing.

- - - Updated - - -


To be fair to USW I don't think alluding claims of provenance between films and jackets is entirely exclusive to their business!

It should be! Or else dont do it! Be honest, dont be a weasel to make an extra buck. The above comment is a poor way to solidify US Wings reputation.

hovitos loincloth
09-30-2014, 05:25 PM
That is a big loophole alright and misleading. It taints the reputation of Mr. Botwright of Wested Leather who claims to have done the same but has shown proof to back up his claims. I think it would be proper of US Wings to add "licensed" to their claim. Otherwise its very misleading and would be a turn off for me doing business with them. I prefer honesty in a listing.

- - - Updated - - -



It should be! Or else dont do it! Be honest, dont be a weasel to make an extra buck. The above comment is a poor way to solidify US Wings reputation.

In what way is it solidifying a reputation? I'm not condoning their actions just saying the practice is not mutually exclusive to them. Remember Westeds current flagship product "from the original manufacturor" is a copy of another vendors copy of an original. Do you see that mentioned in the sales blurb? No. As with all things " caveat emptor" should be the rule. 90% of people don't give a monkey's what the truth is.

hovitos loincloth
10-10-2014, 04:36 PM
It should be! Or else dont do it! Be honest, dont be a weasel to make an extra buck. The above comment is a poor way to solidify US Wings reputation.

As Ron Swanson said: Capitalism is God's way of separating who is smart and who is poor.

neutronbomb
10-14-2014, 11:17 PM
I think you're right crismans!! Look here at the problem this causes:
http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/256-The-Prototype-Jacket-(1-of-3-jackets-used-in-ROTLA)


I can see many of the similarities between Leonard's jacket and the Temple jacket in question. But on that Raider's promo pic you posted, NB, that pocket looks awfully big. Perspective maybe?

indydude18
03-08-2015, 01:00 AM
I'm currently working on a comparison that shows that two ToD jackets are used in The Last Crusade. That's right.....not one, but two ToD jackets! Hopefully I'll be finished with the comparisons this week.

Ram Man
03-08-2015, 02:17 PM
Looking forward to it....

neutronbomb
03-08-2015, 04:02 PM
Totally. It's also really awesome to see someone else suffer with putting together those madning, time consuming comparisons:swear: ;D

crismans
03-08-2015, 06:12 PM
Cool! Can't wait to see it.

Brave Starr
03-08-2015, 07:04 PM
I'm currently working on a comparison that shows that two ToD jackets are used in The Last Crusade. That's right.....not one, but two ToD jackets! Hopefully I'll be finished with the comparisons this week.

Awesome! Makes me want to watch it again and see if I can spot it? I'll probably just wait for you assessment. :)

indydude18
03-10-2015, 07:16 AM
Okay, seriously go grab a beer and some chicken wings or something because this is going to be a long post. Just try not to get any hot sauce on your keyboard…..

So for the past few days, I have been working on a theory that more than one Temple Of Doom jacket was used in the filming of The Last Crusade, specifically only used by stuntmen. Ever since Knibs shared a BTS photo showing Vic wearing a ToD jacket and Harrison wearing his Hero LC jacket, I’ve rewatched LC various times trying to pinpoint in how many scenes the ToD is visible. Only saw it once, in the scene where Vic rides off on his horse after having wedged a rock in the tank cannon. So I assumed only one ToD jacket was being used up to this point. Then I discovered Jordi Casares:

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/vlcsnap-2015-03-07-18h24m58s10_zpsxc4iqx3c.png (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/vlcsnap-2015-03-07-18h24m58s10_zpsxc4iqx3c.png.html)

Jordi Casares is a Spanish stuntman / coordinator who has worked on films such as Troy, Titanic, Pans Labyrinth, and more importantly, Last Crusade. Jordi mostly doubled Nazi’s in LC but just like Vic, Jordi doubled Ford in certain scenes, specifically in some horse riding scenes. In the next photo, Jordi can be seen standing next to Vic.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/vic-gang-on-last-crusade1edit_zpsblgexzvx.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/vic-gang-on-last-crusade1edit_zpsblgexzvx.jpg.html)

What does all this have to do with two ToD jackets you might ask? These photos:

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/jordi-casares-y-vic-armstrong_zpssmuw4yrn.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/jordi-casares-y-vic-armstrong_zpssmuw4yrn.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/2011-01-23_IMG_2011-01-16_01.03.19__4441007_zpsxdgvsndd.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/2011-01-23_IMG_2011-01-16_01.03.19__4441007_zpsxdgvsndd.jpg.html)

Vic and Jordi both clearly doubling Ford. To my eyes, two ToD style jackets can be seen in the first photo. Small ToD pockets on both jackets, no brass snaps on either jacket, distressing not accurate to LC, pocket placement too high for LC, definitely two ToD jackets in my opinion. Unfortunately I don’t have a higher resolution version of the second picture. In no scene during the film does Ford wear any other jacket than his Hero LC jackets. Although in one or more scenes, Vic wears Ford’s Hero jacket AND Vic’s personal Raiders fedora. I guess those rumors about Vic keeping his Raiders hat is true. See following picture:

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/indian37_zpsa2s1m9ks.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/indian37_zpsa2s1m9ks.jpg.html)

This is what I will attempt to prove/disprove in the following comparisons:
1. Vic uses the “Leather shirt” jacket used in the final scenes of TOD, or “Leather Jacket #2”.
2. Jordi uses a “Unconfirmed” ToD style jacket that does not match “Leather Jacket #2” and is not the Noel Howard ToD jacket.
3. The Noel Howard Jacket is not used in LC, or if it is, it does not show up on screen.
4. I find no evidence in LC that the Prototype Jacket is used


To Be Continued......

indydude18
03-10-2015, 08:23 AM
Comparison Part 1: Vic uses the "Leather shirt" jacket used in the final scenes of ToD, or "Leather Jacket #2".

In the following photo comparisons, I highlight several distressing marks on Vic's stunt jacket. In my eyes, these distressing marks are identical to the distressing marks on the "Leather shirt" jacket used by Ford in ToD. Keep in mind that this jacket is NOT the Noel Howard jacket, rather one of possibly 3 jackets used in ToD.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/FORDVIC1.jpg_zpsprmrhd41.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/FORDVIC1.jpg_zpsprmrhd41.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/FORDVIC2.jpg_zpsquxm3rva.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/FORDVIC2.jpg_zpsquxm3rva.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/FORDVIC3.jpg_zpstrizavrx.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/FORDVIC3.jpg_zpstrizavrx.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/FORDVIC4.jpg_zpse5zxp1rx.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/FORDVIC4.jpg_zpse5zxp1rx.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/FORDVIC5.jpg_zpsm2wmnyjv.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/FORDVIC5.jpg_zpsm2wmnyjv.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/FORDVIC6.jpg_zpsckjrxbh3.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/FORDVIC6.jpg_zpsckjrxbh3.jpg.html)

To Be Continued......

Indiego Jones
03-10-2015, 01:40 PM
Wow....great job!
Thanks for the effort, and for sharing.-

indydude18
03-10-2015, 03:58 PM
Comparison Part 2: Jordi uses a “Unconfirmed” ToD style jacket that does not match “Leather Jacket #2” and is not the Noel Howard ToD jacket.

In the following photo comparisons, I highlight several distressing marks on Jordi's stunt jacket. In my eyes, there are no identical distressing marks on either jacket compared. I believe the jacket that Jordi is wearing did not make screen time in ToD. Keep in mind that this jacket is NOT the Noel Howard jacket, rather one of possibly 3 jackets used in ToD.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/JORDIFORD1.jpg_zpszssojk1f.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/JORDIFORD1.jpg_zpszssojk1f.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/JORDIFORD2.jpg_zpsfbsufnrw.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/JORDIFORD2.jpg_zpsfbsufnrw.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/JORDIFORD3.jpg_zpsy7u5jxl1.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/JORDIFORD3.jpg_zpsy7u5jxl1.jpg.html)

To Be Continued......

neutronbomb
03-10-2015, 04:36 PM
I'm actually thinking it might be the NH.

indydude18
03-10-2015, 04:49 PM
Comparison Part 3: The Noel Howard Jacket is not used in LC, or if it is, it does not show up on screen.

I have already compared both jackets to other jackets used in ToD. Neither jacket has similar distressing to the Noel Howard Screen Used Jacket. It is very possible that the NH jacket was used in LC, but it most likely doesn't make screen-time. The 1 photo shows the back of the NH jacket, and the second photo show Vic before he falls over the side of the tank. Notice the absence of brass snaps, the ToD vent configuration and the smaller pockets.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/438827385_24010668b1_o_zpslj1crmwh.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/438827385_24010668b1_o_zpslj1crmwh.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/indiana-jones-last-crusade-movie-screencaps.com-11052_zpswvpt1biv.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/indiana-jones-last-crusade-movie-screencaps.com-11052_zpswvpt1biv.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -


I'm actually thinking it might be the NH.

It could very well be NB. I'm just not seeing the same distressing marks as on the NH. If it is the NH, it probably got much more distressing after the photo with Vic and Jordi was taking. Maybe it got distressed during the Tank Fight scenes? I don't have a production day when the picture was taken, so it's nearly impossible to determine if it was after or before the tank fight.

indydude18
03-10-2015, 06:35 PM
Comparison Part 4: I find no evidence in LC that the Prototype Jacket is used.

I have no photo comparisons for this part because I don't have a good shot of the Prototype jacket's pockets. If I had a good shot of the pockets, I could probably whip up a good comparison. I'm about 50/50 when arguing that the ToD jacket is the Prototype Jacket. I just don't see the same distressing although the pockets are almost identical. Is the Prototype jacket the same jacket Terry used when dragging behind the truck?

Now here's one just for fun! Can't tell if this is Vic or Jordi (Vic is more likely), but here's a good side shot of a ToD style jacket. There's no denying the tiny pockets, no brass snaps, and the ToD style collar. I don't want to use this photo for a comparison as it's such a poor quality, but if you guys see something I missed, give me a holler. I'd love to see what you find.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/indalezi5_zpsk74gjank.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/indalezi5_zpsk74gjank.jpg.html)

neutronbomb
04-02-2015, 07:07 PM
Love your study and analysis. Though I may disagree and think the jackets are possibly the prototype and the NH. It'll be fun to look at this more closely.

indydude18
04-02-2015, 11:01 PM
Neutronbomb, I appreciate your reply. I thought nobody had seen my comparison because I barely got any replies. I haven't looked through HD screencaps of ToD to confirm/disconfirm it's the NH jacket, but it would make sense that a beat up jacket from ToD made it's way to be a stunt jacket from LC. If I have time, I'll work on some more comparisons.

neutronbomb
04-03-2015, 12:51 AM
It was a great idea and theory to explore. I probably wouldn't ever have considered it myself. So it's great. I normally don't respond until I have something worked up, but have been tied up with work and Platon. I have spent a few hours looking at your analysis and then pulling up my various prototype jacket photos to compare against and wanted to give you my initial impressions. I'll also work on some compares from my end.

Gunslinger
04-03-2015, 03:43 AM
To me it seems fairly compelling, and apologise I haven't chipped in. Crazy-busy to the point I can only quickly read and not post often. It's an awesome catch. The jacket really does look to clearly be a ToD, not LC. Which one it is would be the only question in my mind.

neutronbomb
04-04-2015, 02:55 AM
KT. Peter said he did not make the TOD jacket. Do you know the reasons why?

crismans
04-04-2015, 03:19 AM
Very interesting theory! Looking forward to spending some time with this.

Kt Templar
04-04-2015, 01:36 PM
KT. Peter said he did not make the TOD jacket. Do you know the reasons why?

There is a story but the timelines do not match up. Peter used to make a lot of items for the Bond movies, not just leather also fabric. This was in the 80's, for one of the films, the costume designer Tiny Nicholls, (many films including Alien/Aliens etc.) Many of Peter's movie work of that period was with Tiny.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0629471/

Tiny asked him to do some work for him but it ended up he had cut out Berman and Nathans from the deal... Peter was invited to the premiere in London, and Monty Berman was a bit surprised to see him there... he found out that Peter had worked on the movie and then blackballed him from working for B&N.

Now, here is where the timeline doesn't add up. I assumed that the film in question was 'A View to a Kill' but that was released in 1985. ToD was 1984!

Peter did make the jacket for 'A View to a Kill'.

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-view-to-a-kill-1985roger-moore-3839562-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=3839562&sid=dc1d0430-9119-4534-913e-e1530acd453c

So what gives?

It was a long time ago and Peter's recollection may have the 2 stories transposed. It's possible that Peter got backballed for the previous Bond 'Octopussy' (1983) and by the time VTAK came about everything had blown over.

Octopussy:
http://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/the-leather-blouson/

About the ToD jacket. Peter has said he didn't make that one, and on having the NH in his possession for several weeks he said he hadn't made that one.

However, he has been told by the people who worked for Noel Howard that he did, so maybe he just got the timelines mixed up, he doesn't physically make every jacket, his cutters cuts them and machinists make them! And at that time he apparently had a fairly big workshop.

Or it may be the conclusion that most of us have come up with is that the TOD is a left over "stunt" or "stunts" from Raiders and they might have been made by someone else maybe they are Wilsons!

The story that Neil Cooper was brought over by Spielberg and set to a machine at Bermans to make the ToD is a little fanciful:
1) You need special machines for leather and Bermans, well why do they outsource to Peter in the first place if they had the facilities? and
2) Flying someone over to make leather jackets? You couldn't find someone in London to do it??

neutronbomb
04-04-2015, 05:16 PM
I was really hoping it would have to do with Peter recognizing it didn't match with the thread his shop uses, the stitching method, hardware, design features, "oh that's right...I've never had that leather in my shop", the way the vents are cut and stitched isn't my work. That it would have to do with the jacket itself per se rather than his memory of timelines.

Cooper having anything to do with what jackets were made and used in any of the films is just bullshit. Same with the Wilson jackets. I thought it was widely understood that the fake history of the jacket as posted on cow is a laughable farce cooked up by Todd Hayes/Patterson and then supported by those in charge of Cow. All that history was an invention from a sick pathological liar typing away his fantasies in his mothers basement. It was disgusting to see some of the members and admin like hollowpond, Holt, tundra rider, etc brown nosing so furiously over there. All the "history" on the jackets on cow is just flat out, make believe. So I don't care to hear about cooper or Wilson or any of the rest of whatever rotten garbage he spewed out his worthless pie hole and then was and is still so eagerly lapped up by all the lemmings over there. Like that military movie Robert Duvalls in where he "throws up" fake vomit and then all his pals come zooming over with spoons and start shoveling all the "vomit" down like its gourmet. Just exactly...like that.

Something that is difficult to understand is many of Peter's statements regarding his involvement in the Raiders production that took place in 1980 that are clearly contradictory to what actually happened. For instance, in the ROTLA leather thread, he is quoted as saying the action back was his invention and he explains why and how. But, we know it was already designed from costuming.

Combined with Peters early and first replicas (when did he first start making them anyway?) sometime in the 80s not looking anything like the film jacket combined with his explanation of how he invented the raiders jacket making more sense with how he would have come up with his replica design, gives me the feeling that Peters recollection of his involvement in producing the jackets or A jacket that is used in the filming of Raiders that took place in 1980 is based purely on knowing he did it or based off of memory that an event happened vs any actual memory of the details or the jacket(s) itself.

Kt Templar
04-04-2015, 10:37 PM
I think the part he developed was the deeper vents that allowed the gunbelt to work, the back works much better then the TOD and if all the tooing and frowing is to be believed maybe that is the part that is different.

Didn't Nadoolman order her first jackets from Wilsons? Or am I getting confused with the names.

And we only have 'certain people' stating that the original repro jackets didn't look like the Raiders ones, I have never seen one shown. The term bellboy was quoted, but a very short jacket like we now understand the Raiders to be could fit that bill.

neutronbomb
04-05-2015, 01:22 AM
Yes she did. But though her memory is questionable I feel more willing to believe her saying she left them all behind and had the one she took to France (Bantu wind) made in England vs aforementioned scumbag and cohorts that point to a photo of the prototype jacket aka Bantu wind and say Wilson.

Early Peter bellhop (??) jacket.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/Replica%20-%20Keppler%20Prototype%20and%20early%20Westeds/cbdca390-0ee3-49be-9cd1-7b96746d74a1_zpszdqf45ez.jpg

neutronbomb
04-05-2015, 08:21 PM
I did this (see below)..and then drank this (the whole damn thing) in celebration. So needless to say. I lost perspective a long time ago ban-llama
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/Miscellaneous/7A75A4EA-7D9E-42A2-87B8-4EE8948FED22_zpsskpq21a2.jpg~original

But hey, it should be fun for you guys to check out:


This I would say is the deal. It's the Prototype Jacket/Bantu Wind Jacket.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/LC_prototypecompare02_zps9mgeuu3w.jpg~original


http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/LC_prototypecompare01_zpsgczf6ykt.jpg~original


This is interesting. This also looks like the prototype jacket. I'm confident. But, not willing to bet 'The cask of dreams' on it yet like the above Indy_cheers
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/TOD_prototypecompare01_zpsutnbj0ck.jpg~original

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/TOD_prototypecompare02_zpsemy2g4vf.jpg~original

Look at upper storm flap and collar stand:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/TOD_prototypecompare03_zpsmdtbty9u.jpg~original


I'm thinking at least the same leather as used in raiders for Imam and/or prototype. Obviously different leather type than used for the NH/other TOD jackets.

See back of collar:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/TOD_raidersleathercompare01_zpssf7gupbe.jpg~origin al

See right sleeve. Which also incidently looks very similar to the main hero during the Hawaii plane as shown and discussed in the first few pages of this thread.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/TOD_prototypecompare03_zpsmdtbty9u.jpg~original

So, an early conclusion is the prototype jacket is one of the TOD jackets and it also makes an appearance in LC at least as worn by a stuntman/double. And that the leather of the 3 jackets worn in ROTLA is the same.

If any of this holds up its a big deal for our hobby. Huge. You TOD freaks might be on to something.

Kt Templar
04-06-2015, 07:24 AM
Early Peter bellhop (??) jacket.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/Replica%20-%20Keppler%20Prototype%20and%20early%20Westeds/cbdca390-0ee3-49be-9cd1-7b96746d74a1_zpszdqf45ez.jpg

That's what I can't tell, whether that was one of the jackets they called a bellhop. But look at the texture and it seems to have quite a lot of pebbling on it. It my be crispe. Can't tell if it is merino. It looks thicker than later lamb, and they fans may have rejected the pebbling by insisting that the leather was smooth.

indydude18
04-06-2015, 05:40 PM
Yes she did. But though her memory is questionable I feel more willing to believe her saying she left them all behind and had the one she took to France (Bantu wind) made in England vs aforementioned scumbag and cohorts that point to a photo of the prototype jacket aka Bantu wind and say Wilson.

Early Peter bellhop (??) jacket.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/Replica%20-%20Keppler%20Prototype%20and%20early%20Westeds/cbdca390-0ee3-49be-9cd1-7b96746d74a1_zpszdqf45ez.jpg

Neutronbomb, what are the origins of this photo?

neutronbomb
04-06-2015, 06:25 PM
Taken from the Neil Cooper thread. The very first few pages. KT had posted it there and there was some discussion. KT identified the person wearing the jacket as Indiana John. Not totally clear on the year. However, KT made a reference in one of his posts to 1983. Different context though.

http://http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/31-Neil-Cooper-and-Raiders/page23?highlight=Bellhop (http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/31-Neil-Cooper-and-Raiders/page23?highlight=Bellhop)

Ram Man
04-06-2015, 09:55 PM
I remember seeing this photo in the late 80's. I believe it was in a US Cavalry catalog but not completely sure. They had a section on adventure wear. Actually I'm almost certain it was US cavalry!

neutronbomb
04-07-2015, 12:00 PM
Was it an advertisement, an article?

Ram Man
04-07-2015, 01:51 PM
Definitely an advertisement. Going to go through some old boxes and see if I still have it.

neutronbomb
04-07-2015, 03:21 PM
Would that be a bit strange to be advertising a jacket replica made in the early 80s in a magazine for jackets for sale in the late 80s?

When did Peter first start selling replicas. After the LC film came out?

Ram Man
04-07-2015, 07:45 PM
Let me clarify. It was a picture advertising 'adventure wear', things like khakis and shirts and boots, not a replica jacket. Sorry for the confusion. I vividly remember the pic though and it was in color. The jacket was pretty dark, almost black.

Indiego Jones
04-07-2015, 07:58 PM
Ram Man, I'm very interested in seeing that picture in color. If you find the magazine.

Thanks for the info.-

Ram Man
04-07-2015, 08:15 PM
I should add that I'm not 100% sure that it was US Cavalry catalog but every time I see that picture that's the first thing that comes to mind. Remember that was over 20 years ago now! I know the picture very well though cuz I wished at the time I could have the gear he was wearing.

neutronbomb
04-12-2015, 07:44 PM
#2 is The Prototype Jacket. As worn by HF in Raiders in the Bantu Wind scene and the Running from Hovitos scene in the hawaii sequence. And also by the stuntmen.


To illustrate KT's point about the different distressing on the collar, here are the 2 main jackets in ToD:

#1: "Noel Howard"
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h55m25s2.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h55m25s2.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h20m51s14.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h20m51s14.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h47m58s159.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h47m58s159.jpg)

#2:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h46m10s90.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-03-22h46m10s90.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h04m19s26.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h04m19s26.jpg) http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/th_vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m25s134.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/ToD%20Jacket%20Pics/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2011-02-05-22h16m25s134.jpg)

neutronbomb
04-12-2015, 08:12 PM
In my most humble opinion, I believe Jordi is wearing the NH Jacket. In the other two photo compares with HF, HF is wearing The Prototype Jacket/Bantu wind jacket, I believe it is an exact match to the prototype/bantu wind jacket, while jordi is wearing the NH jacket.


Comparison Part 2: Jordi uses a “Unconfirmed” ToD style jacket that does not match “Leather Jacket #2” and is not the Noel Howard ToD jacket.

In the following photo comparisons, I highlight several distressing marks on Jordi's stunt jacket. In my eyes, there are no identical distressing marks on either jacket compared. I believe the jacket that Jordi is wearing did not make screen time in ToD. Keep in mind that this jacket is NOT the Noel Howard jacket, rather one of possibly 3 jackets used in ToD.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/JORDIFORD1.jpg_zpszssojk1f.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/JORDIFORD1.jpg_zpszssojk1f.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/JORDIFORD2.jpg_zpsfbsufnrw.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/JORDIFORD2.jpg_zpsfbsufnrw.jpg.html)

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/JORDIFORD3.jpg_zpsy7u5jxl1.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/JORDIFORD3.jpg_zpsy7u5jxl1.jpg.html)

To Be Continued......

neutronbomb
04-12-2015, 08:25 PM
I think Knibs7 got it right that one of the raiders jackets, as worn by Terry Leonard in his compare included at the bottom of this post, is used as one of the main jackets in TOD. In the compare he uses the NH TOD jacket as an example to compare as a match to the jacket Terry Leonard is wearing, The Prototype Jacket from Raiders (HF sitting dockside Bantu Wind Jacket). They do share much as far as features go, however, the NH jacket is not The Prototype Jacket that Terry Leonard is wearing. The NH jacket is the 2nd or other jacket used in TOD.

Directly below are the two jackets side by side. Vic on the left wearing The Prototype Jacket from Raiders. Jordi on the right wearing the NH TOD jacket.
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/jordi-casares-y-vic-armstrong_zpssmuw4yrn.jpg


Ok so I have this theory that in some of the Raiders truck chase Terry Leonard is wearing the Temple of Doom jacket. I'm basing this off of some behind the scenes pictures. And if you're like me, this thought has popped into your head before: "Man, the Temple of Doom jacket looks so much more beat up than any of the other jackets in the films. I wonder why that is." Well, if my theory is correct, then having the jacket dragged behind a truck would be a good explanation. Over on COW some members agree with me, but then some members, mainly the MODs, think I'm crazy. So, I just wanted to get some opinions from a different forum.

Here are the pics I'm talking about and I've pointed out some areas that seem to have the same distressing marks. Some say that it's just one of the Wilson jackets and that very well may be true... But I'm not much for coincidences when it comes to distressing marks.

Anyway, this is what I'm talking about...

http://s263.photobucket.com/user/knibs7/media/TODjacketcomp_zpsd2fe301f.jpg.html]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii127/knibs7/TODjacketcomp_zpsd2fe301f.jpg[/url]

You can even see in the circled area where it's the same "bald" space

Kyle

neutronbomb
04-12-2015, 09:30 PM
It makes sense KT that Peter did in fact make the NH jacket. And it was the TOD production that he was involved in. It would eliminate all the inconsistencies and in retrospect from what we can determine from analyzing the film jackets in Raiders and TOD, his previously made statements would mesh much better.

It resolves why Peter doesn't remember or recognize Debra, why his early jacket replicas never matched the main hero jackets from Raiders, why NH does remember Peter being involved in "Raiders" and why Peter also remembers being involved in "Raiders", and why Peter's replicas much more closely matched the features of the TOD jacket(s) than Raiders 1980. His very first replicas in 1986 even had the features we associate with the TOD/prototype jacket.

In pre-production TOD was known as Raiders. Raiders II. Also, here's an exact match of Peters leather to the NH leather. If you don't look closely, you might miss the 3rd NH photo in the compare below. TOD pre-production simply gave Peter The Prototype Jacket to use as a template in order to make a back-up jacket.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/g_veste_nh_peter_02.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/NH_Wested%20compare_zps6jgcw17u.jpg~originalhttp://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/JORDIFORD1.jpg_zpszssojk1f20copy_zpsmkqus64g.jpg~o riginal




There is a story but the timelines do not match up. Peter used to make a lot of items for the Bond movies, not just leather also fabric. This was in the 80's, for one of the films, the costume designer Tiny Nicholls, (many films including Alien/Aliens etc.) Many of Peter's movie work of that period was with Tiny.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0629471/

Tiny asked him to do some work for him but it ended up he had cut out Berman and Nathans from the deal... Peter was invited to the premiere in London, and Monty Berman was a bit surprised to see him there... he found out that Peter had worked on the movie and then blackballed him from working for B&N.

Now, here is where the timeline doesn't add up. I assumed that the film in question was 'A View to a Kill' but that was released in 1985. ToD was 1984!

Peter did make the jacket for 'A View to a Kill'.

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-view-to-a-kill-1985roger-moore-3839562-details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=3839562&sid=dc1d0430-9119-4534-913e-e1530acd453c

So what gives?

It was a long time ago and Peter's recollection may have the 2 stories transposed. It's possible that Peter got backballed for the previous Bond 'Octopussy' (1983) and by the time VTAK came about everything had blown over.

Octopussy:
http://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/the-leather-blouson/

About the ToD jacket. Peter has said he didn't make that one, and on having the NH in his possession for several weeks he said he hadn't made that one.

However, he has been told by the people who worked for Noel Howard that he did, so maybe he just got the timelines mixed up, he doesn't physically make every jacket, his cutters cuts them and machinists make them! And at that time he apparently had a fairly big workshop.

Or it may be the conclusion that most of us have come up with is that the TOD is a left over "stunt" or "stunts" from Raiders and they might have been made by someone else maybe they are Wilsons!

The story that Neil Cooper was brought over by Spielberg and set to a machine at Bermans to make the ToD is a little fanciful:
1) You need special machines for leather and Bermans, well why do they outsource to Peter in the first place if they had the facilities? and
2) Flying someone over to make leather jackets? You couldn't find someone in London to do it??

Kt Templar
04-12-2015, 10:23 PM
If Noel said Peter worked on the Raiders Hero jackets, he did. Noel was pretty meticulous on his record keeping. There is a pic somewhere of all his files on a bookcase including X-Men and Harry Potter on the spines.

Now whether the Raiders 'doubles' were also made by him and then reused in TOD. We may never really know.

neutronbomb
04-13-2015, 01:01 AM
The raiders prototype jacket came first as Debora said she only had one jacket from B&N made and given to her in time to take to France. Then the Imam and main heroes came next and were introduced into filming at Elstree. It looks like the same leather with Ribby striations were used for all three of those jackets. Except the two, imams and main hero, share very significant feature changes. Different zippers. Different pockets, different yoke sizes, different action backs, maybe even different storm flap widths. But the same leather. Very interesting.

And then for TOD, we have The Prototype Jacket from Raiders as the TOD hero jacket along with another different jacket introduced into filming that was clearly made to duplicate the same features as the prototype jacket, but made with a different leather. A leather that matches leather Peter used for his replicas that he started producing a short time later after TOD. Those replicas also shared TOD/prototype jacket features rather than imam or main hero raiders' jacket features, That different jacket is the only one with doubles written in it that we know about.

Kt Templar
04-13-2015, 09:45 PM
10 machinists, 2 cutters & a compressed timescale. A plethora of bundles of leather.

Variations happen.

neutronbomb
04-14-2015, 05:29 AM
Totally. But I don't personally believe that's the reason. Way too much difference for it to be wardrobe saying it is fine go ahead and get it done. Fast and sloppy is just dandy :whip:

If we are looking for reasons, then a much better one would be that Debra left for France with the only jacket. It got made. Maybe in-house. Or at Peter's workshop. Somebody. Maybe Peter's workshop had a bundle of that stuff delivered once they knew the type of leather Debra wanted. Or they had it on hand. Debra got it. Approved it. Told her staff to make more and left immediately for France with that first jacket. The rest of wardrobe knew she was leaving to get married and wouldn't be back. They were back at elstree now in charge moving forward. They needed to get more jackets made. They sit down with Peter, maybe Kelly Kimball, and go over what they want. Pore over drawings. Maybe some pictures of the first jacket. Maybe they decided to make agreed to changes. Maybe they wanted to leave their own personal mark. Or maybe after HF first tried it on they notice the vents weren't working to their liking or whatever.

Peter takes the diagrams, changes, information back to his shop and has two more jackets made to the specs requested by the new people in charge at wardrobe. TaDa. Two new jackets made with the proper Wested quality and care per the specs from wardrobe. Filming gets back to Elstree. HF tries on the two new jackets. Or maybe just one. The Imam. Peter is told this is perfect. Make another just like it and meanwhile they start filming with the Imam until the other one shows up. In any case. it makes way more sense that two jackets with the exact same different features were made on purpose specifically to be worn by HF for whatever reason.

Then comes TOD. Anthony Powell decides since it's a prequel, the prototype works better as the jacket. Or the two different jackets "disappeared". And they make a second backup jacket that matches for filming. Possibly Peter does make it. His older leather does appear to match it. Or in house bermans makes the 3 raiders and Peter gets the outsourcing for the second TOD jacket. It doesn't really matter as Peter promptly forgot everything about it and had to start from scratch for his replicas just like some of the other vendors.

There are probably lots of reasons. That's as good as any.

neutronbomb
04-30-2015, 06:44 PM
KT. Do you have the measurements for the NH jacket? Also what doubles jackets (plural) in Raiders are you referring to.

Kt Templar
04-30-2015, 06:57 PM
No I don't have any sizes I'm afraid. I am a 40, the NH was at least a 42.

'Doubles' was written on the B&H label, I think of the shirt. Meaning "The Stunt double(s)"

Indiego Jones
04-30-2015, 08:22 PM
No I don't have any sizes I'm afraid. I am a 40, the NH was at least a 42.

'Doubles' was written on the B&H label, I think of the shirt. Meaning "The Stunt double(s)"

The word DOUBLES was written on the NH ToD jacket label.

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/jacket20label_zps6snhhsmb.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/jacket20label_zps6snhhsmb.jpg.html)

And, IMO, it was written during LC production.-

neutronbomb
04-30-2015, 09:43 PM
I thought from this post you were referring to the jacket(s) used in Raiders and was unaware of doubles written in any of them.

I would think Peter took measurements of the NH jacket and you might have had access to them. Not size per se. But sleeve length, collar measurements, collar stand width, yoke panel width, back panel width, armpit to armpit, bottom width, front and back panel length, sleeve widths, etc.

Speaking of collar stand, wasn't there some discussion regarding the TOD collar stand. It was cloth, or there wasn't one or something?


If Noel said Peter worked on the Raiders Hero jackets, he did. Noel was pretty meticulous on his record keeping. There is a pic somewhere of all his files on a bookcase including X-Men and Harry Potter on the spines.

Now whether the Raiders 'doubles' were also made by him and then reused in TOD. We may never really know.

RCSignals
05-01-2015, 01:30 AM
Remember Peter did say, about when he announced he would be making replicas of the Noel Howard jacket, that it was not a jacket he made.

Do you really think the other jacket in ToD was the Raiders prototype? I'm not convinced, I don't see a Raiders "larger pocket" jacket

Also, the ToD jacket(s) I received from Peter were size for size. i posted them somewhere.
It was consistent sizing with all other "Ford" sized jackets and I'd say that like all other such jackets it was a 40

neutronbomb
05-04-2015, 11:11 PM
RCSignals, yes I do remember Peter said that. I don't trust what Peter says though. He's wrong a lot. He's old. It's been 35 years. He keeps poor records. He has a poor memory. He forgets the difference between cowhide and lambskin. He forgets some of his earliest replicas used shrunken lambskin and then says he's never heard of it until TN introduced it. As Platon pointed out, he contradicts himself on whether the lambskin hides he used were chrome tanned or vegetable tanned. Plus, he doesn't remember any of the details of any of the jackets he made back then anyway. When he said it was not a jacket he made, it was because the film name 'Temple of Doom' doesn't ring a bell anywhere with him. That and apparently for no other reason. Not, "oh my god...I can tell by looking at the jacket and the leather of the jacket and the details of the jacket and the construction of the jacket or any other damn thing." No. Not because of the jacket itself per se. But because he just doesn't remember making any jackets for TOD in general. Same with Raiders. But, somehow that does ring a bell. "Yes. I remember I made them for Raiders. In general. Not because I actually remember making them or what they looked like or anything about them specifically."

Almost like if I was to awaken from a coma and people said. Man dude, you invented a new way to use Pi to solve structural engineering problems that now can be created using bubble gum and floss with a gravity induced time, space continuum. You changed the world man..you changed the world!! I was unconsciously speaking these equations out loud while dreaming about in-n-out burgers and shakes and they brought in Hawking and some other brilliant MIT whizzes and recorded everything and then went and applied them and then gave me credit, but all I know is I was admiring the way my striated ribby merino raiders jacket collar's texture was looking particularly like the Imam Jacket's in the review mirror while driving to see a Last Crusade film showing in LA....and then..woke up in the hospital thirsting for vanilla malts. Everywhere I go people say, "hey man, are you the guy that invented the bubble gum floss building method that's stronger than cast iron ionized carbon fiber titanium steel?" And I say...yes..yes I am 8) And then they say, "Can you show me how all that works because it's simply incredible?" And I say..no..no I can't :-[ And then they go ??? ...It's just like that.

None of this is to just badmouth him just for the sake of it though. From what I've heard he's a great guy. Nice and everything. All I'm saying is like what I showed. The leather from his replicas from years ago looks to be a match to the NH.


I can't find the TOD jackets you posted about. Any idea where I might should look.


I believe 100% with absolutely zero doubt the other jacket (the non-NH one) is the Raiders prototype. The one HF wears sitting dockside in France for the Bantu wind shoot. But I'm not sure I'm understanding your "larger pocket" jacket issue. The prototype/bantu wind/terry leonard jacket has the smaller pockets doesn't it (see below). I posted the compares in an earlier post showing The Raiders Prototype Jacket is the same jacket as the "leather shirt"/non-NH jacket in Temple of Doom. But, you are not convinced :'( Maybe others aren't convinced either. What's the hang up guys :wtf:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Prototype%20Jacket/353948929_6bf05cd1bb_o.jpg~original

Same Jacket. For sure. Total certainty.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Prototype%20Jacket/bantugx6.jpg~original
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Prototype%20Jacket/IMG_5187_zpspcrd5bep.jpg~original
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Prototype%20Jacket/IMG_5193_zps88okwyd2.jpg~original
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Prototype%20Jacket/IMG_5188_zpsiooh56t9.jpg~original

RCSignals
05-05-2015, 10:05 PM
If the prototype jacket is that one used in ToD, the jacket Noel Howard had must be a close copy of it (minus the "D" for Debra strap buckles? Indy_cheers ) If so we also know the true vent configuration of that prototype jacket. Significantly different from the vent of other Raiders jackets, LC and CS jackets.

But I'm not sure the pocket size of it is that small Maybe it is just the photos

Mac
05-06-2015, 02:56 AM
When he said it was not a jacket he made, it was because the film name 'Temple of Doom' doesn't ring a bell anywhere with him. That and apparently for no other reason. Not, "oh my god...I can tell by looking at the jacket and the leather of the jacket and the details of the jacket and the construction of the jacket or any other damn thing." No. Not because of the jacket itself per se. But because he just doesn't remember making any jackets for TOD in general. Same with Raiders. But, somehow that does ring a bell. "Yes. I remember I made them for Raiders. In general. Not because I actually remember making them or what they looked like or anything about them specifically."


This is what Peter said on COW back in 2003 regarding TOD jackets:



PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2003 11:58 am

Yes it sure makes me feel old:
More facts:
I did make some jackets for TOD but not many, a french company made the top ups.
I did NOT make the jacket that Noel Howard has, I do not know where it came from but I beleive it is a french TOD.
Beleive it or not we still have the original makers
Peter Botwright- Designer and Pattern Maker of the Original
Bill Mole- Leather Cutter or Clicker ( official term) cutter of the original and still cutting.
Doris Scott: First prototype and Original jacket machinist and still machining Indy jackets
Georgie Shadwell: Original Jacket machinist and also still making Indyjackets.
Of course we have new blood but the Old Gang still exists.
Cheers
Peter

Someone else in that same thread stated that Peter had told them that he had only made a few jackets for TOD and the production needed more on short notice, so the producers had some made by a French company.

I’m not sure who originated the claim that the jacket was made by a French company, whether it was Noel Howard or Peter or someone else, but I would point out that in TOD, the ‘initial entry into the desolate village’ scene was filmed last during location shooting (using the Noel Howard – not made by Wested - jacket), while the ending ‘return to the restored village with the children’ scene was filmed first with a different jacket – with what appears to be much less smooth leather (possibly Wested.) That’s consistent with Peter’s assertion that later in the production they needed more jackets, beyond the ones he initially provided, so they sourced them elsewhere for convenience.

Kt Templar
05-06-2015, 08:10 AM
He's only 70 FFS! LOL, Ms Nadoolman has her own time faded memories.

But I suspect there is a little misinterpretation by people talking to him over the years, I have known many Americans being befuddled by his very English (specifically East London) accent.

Not sure what you mean about the cowhide vs lamb, he has always said all the jackets were lamb. Specifically natural ribs and stretch marks on the Raiders. He only moved over to smooth nappa on the repros because that is what the fans wanted, because that is what they insisted they saw on screen.

RCSignals
05-07-2015, 10:40 PM
I too wonder where the French company assertion comes from. Is it an assumption because of the buckles?

What are the differences of these jackets? other than the apparent tighter fit of one. (which flies in the face of the other claim that jackets were too big so a new tighter liner was made. I'm not sure that would be a practical way of resizing any jacket)

neutronbomb
05-08-2015, 02:13 AM
Hey indydude18, The photo you asked about (see bottom of post) is of The Raiders Prototype Jacket. The same as the other photos of this jacket you've shown Vic wearing in LC.

There are many features that show the exact match, but to show one that also makes for a great contrast between the NH and The Raiders Prototype Jacket check out the top of the left sleeve where it joins the shoulder seam. There is a very, very dramatic vertical crease running downwards that can be easily seen in photos of this jacket. Contrast this against the NH TOD Jacket's top of the left sleeve. See how it bulges out and then cuts in sharply in a couple of places. Very different. Very telling. You can still see that feature still exists to this day in the NH jacket. Check it out in the second photo.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/LC_prototypecompare1_zpsc1sgxpwo.jpg~original
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/TOD%20-%20Jacket/NH_leftsleeve_zps1pzo08dk.jpg~original

And yes, the Prototype jacket is the same jacket Terry used when dragging behind the truck. Check out the Prototype jacket thread when you get the chance which I'll now have to update after this discovery that you and knibs have helped to uncover ban-llama

Comparison Part 4: I find no evidence in LC that the Prototype Jacket is used.

I have no photo comparisons for this part because I don't have a good shot of the Prototype jacket's pockets. If I had a good shot of the pockets, I could probably whip up a good comparison. I'm about 50/50 when arguing that the ToD jacket is the Prototype Jacket. I just don't see the same distressing although the pockets are almost identical. Is the Prototype jacket the same jacket Terry used when dragging behind the truck?

Now here's one just for fun! Can't tell if this is Vic or Jordi (Vic is more likely), but here's a good side shot of a ToD style jacket. There's no denying the tiny pockets, no brass snaps, and the ToD style collar. I don't want to use this photo for a comparison as it's such a poor quality, but if you guys see something I missed, give me a holler. I'd love to see what you find.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/indalezi5_zpsk74gjank.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/indalezi5_zpsk74gjank.jpg.html)

neutronbomb
02-03-2016, 07:00 PM
Confirmed by Bob that Neil Cooper made the original Raiders jacket and 8 for TOD.
http://www.uswings.com/who-has-the-largest-selection-of-indy-style-jackets/

ba100583
07-05-2017, 06:10 AM
Hi all,

I wrote Star Wars Costumes: The Original Trilogy released in 2014 and worked extensively with the original Star Wars costumes in the Skywalker Ranch archives at that time. I've also viewed the Indy jackets in the Ranch collection there, and have examined several film-used jackets in private collections (including the Noel Howard jacket) first hand.

FYI the Terry Leonard "Truck drag" jacket exists in the Ranch collection. It has the smaller pockets and is similar in style to the TOD jackets but it did *not* appear in TOD. It is quite thoroughly thrashed, especially on the back where it was literally dragged along the ground for that sequence. Additionally it has a cut in the sleeve relating to the shot-in-the-arm gag. For that reason it would not have been used in TOD. In the collection they have two TOD jackets beyond the Noel Howard one that has been well documented - one is the "Jordi Last Crusade photo" jacket (heavily weathered; I don't know if this actually appears in TOD anywhere) and another is the other TOD jacket posted in some shots here--the one that isn't the Noel Howard.

No way the truck chase jacket was used in close-up in TOD. Always possible it was used for a stunt shot somewhere; I haven't taken a close look.

Brandon

Indiego Jones
07-05-2017, 05:27 PM
Confirmed by Bob that Neil Cooper made the original Raiders jacket and 8 for TOD.
http://www.uswings.com/who-has-the-largest-selection-of-indy-style-jackets/

Too much bullshit...amazing.


Hi all,

I wrote Star Wars Costumes: The Original Trilogy released in 2014 and worked extensively with the original Star Wars costumes in the Skywalker Ranch archives at that time. I've also viewed the Indy jackets in the Ranch collection there, and have examined several film-used jackets in private collections (including the Noel Howard jacket) first hand.

FYI the Terry Leonard "Truck drag" jacket exists in the Ranch collection. It has the smaller pockets and is similar in style to the TOD jackets but it did *not* appear in TOD. It is quite thoroughly thrashed, especially on the back where it was literally dragged along the ground for that sequence. Additionally it has a cut in the sleeve relating to the shot-in-the-arm gag. For that reason it would not have been used in TOD. In the collection they have two TOD jackets beyond the Noel Howard one that has been well documented - one is the "Jordi Last Crusade photo" jacket (heavily weathered; I don't know if this actually appears in TOD anywhere) and another is the other TOD jacket posted in some shots here--the one that isn't the Noel Howard.

No way the truck chase jacket was used in close-up in TOD. Always possible it was used for a stunt shot somewhere; I haven't taken a close look.

Brandon

THANKS FOR SHARING BRANDON!!!!
This fills gaps on the story.


At the Ranch, did you had the chance to see any Raiders hero jacket? Pictures ? (dreamer....)
How it looks? What about the grain and ribby marks?
It's dark brown, or more like chocolate brown?

Thanks again!!!

xmasters
07-17-2017, 03:53 PM
Unless I'm missing something nobody suggested that the truck drag jacket appeared in Temple of Doom, just that the jacket might have been picked up and used as the pattern basis for the ToD jackets.

The Noel Howard ToD jacket does appear certainly in the end scenes of the movie for sure. You can clearly match up the distressing in close ups. The Noel Howard jacket also has a Bermans and Nathan label sown into it.

xmasters
07-17-2017, 04:06 PM
FYI the Terry Leonard "Truck drag" jacket exists in the Ranch collection. It has the smaller pockets and is similar in style to the TOD jackets but it did *not* appear in TOD. It is quite thoroughly thrashed, especially on the back where it was literally dragged along the ground for that sequence. Additionally it has a cut in the sleeve relating to the shot-in-the-arm gag.

Interesting, but I don't believe the Leonard jacket is the same jacket Ford wears for the shot in the arm gag.

Indiego Jones
07-18-2017, 03:34 PM
FYI the Terry Leonard "Truck drag" jacket exists in the Ranch collection. It has the smaller pockets and is similar in style to the TOD jackets but it did *not* appear in TOD. It is quite thoroughly thrashed, especially on the back where it was literally dragged along the ground for that sequence. Additionally it has a cut in the sleeve relating to the shot-in-the-arm gag.


Interesting, but I don't believe the Leonard jacket is the same jacket Ford wears for the shot in the arm gag.

I'll get it clear for you:

1) The Terry Leonard "Truck drag" jacket, is the same Ford is wearing at Bantu Wind pier scene. The very first scene filmed for the movie.
For continuity purpose, the jacket MUST have the shot in the arm gag.
After that scene was filmed, the hole must be sewed in order to be used as a stunt jacket in later filmed scenes.

2) The jacket Harrison Ford is wearing in the scene where gets shot in the arm, on the truck, is one of the HERO jackets (I pressume is the MAIN HERO)


Cheers.-

neutronbomb
07-19-2017, 05:14 PM
The truck drag ROTLA prototype jacket worn by terry leonard wasn't used for the bullet hole in the arm shot of HF. That was the Imam jacket. 3 different jackets were used throughout the truck chase sequence.

I do think the Bantu wind jacket/terry Leonard truck drag jacket/Rotla prototype jacket is the actual main hero jacket of TOD. I think the photo compares in this thread show this very clearly.

Plus the truck drag stunt didn't tear the jacket up.

ba100583
07-21-2017, 05:21 AM
The Terry Leonard jacket has a cut (simple horizontal cut) in the sleeve for continuity purposes, not because Ford wore it for that shot. As per my prior post the Leonard jacket is trashed (from being used for the actual drag) and there's no way it is a hero jacket from TOD. The hero TOD jackets are not from Raiders, they were made new for TOD and that's why they have B&N Raiders II labels (see the well-documented Noel Howard jacket. The other TOD jackets in the archives collection are the same.)

Ford did not wear the Leonard jacket when he was shot in the arm. In fact take a close look at the sequence - Ford wears two different bullet hit jackets. One for the first part of the sequence including the actual squib shot, which blows a large vertical hole in the sleeve--and then a different one for the second part of the sequence, with a simple horizontal cut in the sleeve (see the shot where he's being punched in the arm). It's possible the first one of these was the main hero or the Imam jacket. The second one, with the simple horizontal cut, I don't believe is the Imam and it's definitely not the main hero. I believe it's a different jacket that doesn't appear anywhere else.

- - - Updated - - -

Also to answer the prior question - the main hero jacket does not exist in the Archives collection. I am aware of two separate individuals connected to the film who allegedly had a jacket at one time--one of these could be (or could have been) the main hero jacket. It's possible the two jackets are the main hero and the Imam. But neither jacket can be located today, and I have tried extensively. It may be lost.

Brandon

Indiego Jones
07-21-2017, 01:48 PM
The Terry Leonard jacket has a cut (simple horizontal cut) in the sleeve for continuity purposes, not because Ford wore it for that shot. As per my prior post the Leonard jacket is trashed (from being used for the actual drag) and there's no way it is a hero jacket from TOD. The hero TOD jackets are not from Raiders, they were made new for TOD and that's why they have B&N Raiders II labels (see the well-documented Noel Howard jacket. The other TOD jackets in the archives collection are the same.)

Ford did not wear the Leonard jacket when he was shot in the arm. In fact take a close look at the sequence - Ford wears two different bullet hit jackets. One for the first part of the sequence including the actual squib shot, which blows a large vertical hole in the sleeve--and then a different one for the second part of the sequence, with a simple horizontal cut in the sleeve (see the shot where he's being punched in the arm). It's possible the first one of these was the main hero or the Imam jacket. The second one, with the simple horizontal cut, I don't believe is the Imam and it's definitely not the main hero. I believe it's a different jacket that doesn't appear anywhere else.

- - - Updated - - -

Also to answer the prior question - the main hero jacket does not exist in the Archives collection. I am aware of two separate individuals connected to the film who allegedly had a jacket at one time--one of these could be (or could have been) the main hero jacket. It's possible the two jackets are the main hero and the Imam. But neither jacket can be located today, and I have tried extensively. It may be lost.

Brandon

Brandon,

Thank you so much for your reply.

Great to know there still exists other ToD jackets in the archives.

Your contribution here helps me to complete many lost details on the jackets history.

Kind regards.-