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View Full Version : Pocket size revisited



PLATON
12-15-2010, 04:40 PM
Frankly, I wouldn't believe that the height of this pocket is 8 inches.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4962/pocketv.jpg

What do you think?

djd
12-15-2010, 04:49 PM
I dont know... What size do you think they are? Smaller than 8"?

PLATON
12-15-2010, 05:07 PM
Since you ask, I would say 7.5 x 6.5

djd
12-15-2010, 05:13 PM
Do you see any evidence of a jacket with larger pockets than this elsewhere in the film? As I understand it the TNO jacket is copied from a screen used jacket?

Second question. What size pockets do you think the ToD jackets had? They're always said to be smaller but are they?

I'm genuinely interested in your answers. I have none of my own!

PLATON
12-15-2010, 05:28 PM
Honestly, I do not recall any scene in the film in which I could think that the pockets are 8 inches in height.
Even the Hawaii jacket, (which TN is supposed to have copied) when he puts sand in the bag, does not seem to have pockets 8 inches long.

The TOD pockets are smaller, but their size is not a mystery anymore as the jacket has been in Peter's possession and has been cloned accordingly. I recall that before TOD jacket became available I was calculating the TOD pocket size by comparison to Raiders and when TOD jacket came out I found that my calculations were more or less correct. All my notes are in my old pc though and I do not currently have access to it.

Mac
12-15-2010, 06:38 PM
Even the Hawaii jacket, (which TN is supposed to have copied) when he puts sand in the bag, does not seem to have pockets 8 inches long.

Though these assessments are always limited and imperfect, being shot with different lenses and from different angles, etc., here’s comparison of the Hawaii Sandbag Jacket with Big Tony’s prototype 000/888.

Prototype:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/TNProtoPocket.jpg

Hawaii Sandbag:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/PocketHawaiiSandbag.jpg

Transparent overlay of both:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/PocketComboTrans.jpg

Solid overlay:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/PocketCombo.jpg

Both pockets seem to be very close in proportion to me, judging by the seam-to-seam distance from top to bottom and side-to-side. Also note that the distance from the bottom of the pocket to the bottom of the jacket is virtually identical in both.

- Mac

djd
12-15-2010, 06:40 PM
That's a great comparison picture. Thanks Mac

Kt Templar
12-15-2010, 06:58 PM
Shows up what has been bugging me about the pockets. The centre point of the flap is too sharp and the curves of the bottom of the pockets not gently rounded enough.

Mac
12-15-2010, 08:05 PM
KT I agree about the TN 000 pocket being somewhat more pointed when compared to the Hawaii jacket(s?) we see on screen. While we’re veering slightly off topic, something’s that’s been bugging me about the TN prototype is the pocket spacing.

Specifically the space between the storm flap and the pocket:

TN 000/888 prototype & Hawaii jackets:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/TNProtoPocket.jpghttp://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/HawaiiPocket000Proto.jpg

Hawaii jacket close up:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/HawaiiPocketCloseup2.jpg

Chris King had Tony move the pocket slightly more toward the storm flap on his first jacket as compared to the TNO Raiders pattern.

Does anybody know what the pocket spacing is on the prototype jacket?

- Mac

RCSignals
12-15-2010, 08:11 PM
I think you are seeing illusion on that placement.

I spoke with Tony at length on this, he duplicated pocket placement exactly. BTW the pockets are spaced from the side seams not the storm flap.
Chris King was wrong and went with what he 'saw', which itself is OK as long as it is what one wants.

as for flap shape I have no doubt there will be slight differences between every jacket, as for any hand made/sewn garment.

RCSignals
12-15-2010, 08:30 PM
One thing that is for sure about the Raiders jacket pockets, is they are too large to be duplicates of A-2 fllght jacket pockets. The Temple of Doom jacket on the other hand are almost exact A-2 pocket size.

Kt Templar
12-15-2010, 08:31 PM
That would be a 50/50judgement call. Spacing should really be proportional to the jacket. BUT if it is for looks, the logical distance should be from the storm flap as this is closest to the viewer and thus more visible.

Mac
12-15-2010, 08:36 PM
The spacing could be an illusion RC but I can’t come up with a plausible explanation of how. Any suggestions?

I suppose it makes sense from a manufacturing point of view to place the pockets based on distance from the side seam, as that would allow proper space for comfortable insertion of hands in the pocket on different size jackets. If the two jackets are identical in size and pattern, though, I would expect that the front panel would be the same width and the pockets would fall in the same place – as measured from the back seam or the storm flap.

Could there be more than one jacket in Hawaii, contrary to what has been previously stated?

I agree with you RC that the shape of the flap can vary somewhat from piece to piece in a handmade garment. It’s not really a point of contention with me but it’s somewhat noticeable when compared to the Hawaii photo.

- Mac

RCSignals
12-15-2010, 08:56 PM
I can only go by the words from the man who had the jacket to duplicate.
The spacing of pockets from the side seam isn't just a general manufacturing comment, it is as 'the jacket' was.
to move that pocket closer to the storm flap results in uneven spacing from the side seam.
We as buyers have requested 'changes' such as that not just from tony but also from Peter. I believe it is/was a point of puzzlement/confusion/frustration for both. I recall reading a post of Peters a while back expressing his own exasperation at odd ball requests.

jacket#000 is really just a jacket, true it is a 'model' but what matters more so are the actual patterns.
Tony told me the #000 was nice but if he 'lost it tomorrow', with his detailed notes drawings and measurements he could easily make patterns and another accurate jacket.

Gunslinger
12-15-2010, 10:33 PM
I did a bunch of analysis re pockets before I had my last jacket made and found that the pocket placement on the TN is dead on for both the key Raiders jackets, and the pocket flaps are indeed pretty much dead-on to the Hawaii, as Mac has shown quite nicely here. I went through the movie to try and nail down specs for the Main Hero jacket, and found about half a dozen shots where the pockets were more or less stright-on to camera for overlays. I then did a bunch of markups for size, proportion, shape, popper placement. I've somehow lost the psd file with some of the shots (Crypt, flying wing, etc.), but you hopefully get the drift here. Allowing for the correct amount of flap warping was the tricky bit.

000/888
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Pocket-000-888-1.jpg

Hawaii
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Pocket-Hawaii-1.jpg

Idol Grab
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Pocket-Idolgrab-1.jpg

Well of Souls
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Pocket-Wellofsouls-1.jpg

I also double-checked my exiting TNO jacket for correct placement. I just threw in one of my earlier photos overlaid on the nice straight-on Raven bar grab, and got this. You'll notice all that's slightly off is there needs to be more upward curve to the flaps.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Raven-31-888-Comparison-Ford-1.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Raven-31-888-Comparison-kurt-1.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Raven-31-888-Comparison-mid-1.jpg

deadseascrolls
12-15-2010, 10:40 PM
Gunslinger,

I just can't believe how wonderful that jacket came out! Your work has paid off thousands of times over with that jacket! And the wonderful thing about this type of jacket is, the more you wear it, the more it will become more "authentic" to the movie. So talk about a double-standard --- you get to enjoy the jacket and then, when it's all wore out, it'll look absolutely superb on display in your home as "THE" replica Raiders jacket. As Marcus Brody (the character, not our fellow member) so eloquently put it ---- nothing has come close.

Now back to the pocket sizing and flaps. :)

DSS

Gunslinger
12-15-2010, 10:47 PM
Thanks mate - but just clarifying, that is a photo of my other jacket, not the latest one. I don't know how the pockets turned out on it yet from an overlay perspective.

But yes, back to pockets...

RCSignals
12-16-2010, 12:51 AM
Great work with the photos Mac and Gunslinger.

bigrex
12-16-2010, 03:13 AM
Since you ask, I would say 7.5 x 6.5


Exactly, why is it so hard.

PLATON
12-20-2010, 02:28 PM
It's not hard, but TN jacket pockets are 8 inches in height.

RCSignals
12-20-2010, 07:58 PM
It's not hard, but TN jacket pockets are 8 inches in height.


actually they are 7-3/4"

Raskolnikov
12-20-2010, 10:06 PM
About the flaps. The 000# prototype is an unused jacket. Once beaten up the flaps tend to curl. It is then when they achieve the same shape as in the movie. Here is my TN:

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/Raskolnikov_photo/20-12-10_233646.jpg

neutronbomb
01-19-2011, 08:19 PM
Hey Platon, can I ask where you got the 8" high number from. I measured some of the 000/888 specs back in October of last year and got 7.5" high and 6.5" wide. Also I think Mac and Gunslinger did a pretty good job matching the pocket of the 000/888 jacket to The Main Hero and The Imam/Hawaii jackets. Is the pocket size still and outstanding issue for you?


1. Left Arm Seam to Yoke Seam: 1 3/4"
2. Right Arm Seam to Yoke Seam: 1 1/2"
3. Collar Stand Width: 1 1/8"
4. Pleat Depth: 1 1/8"
5. Left Yoke Edge Width: 2 3/4"
6. Right Yoke Edge Width: 2 7/8"
7. Middle Yoke Width: 4 3/4"
8. Left and Right Pocket: 6 1/2" wide X 7 1/2" high
9. Storm Flap Width: 1 5/8 to 1 3/4"
10. Back Length: 22 1/2"
(from bottom of collar stand)
11. Storm Flap Length: 23"
(from top of collar stand)
12. Armpit across chest: 23 1/2"
(material to material)
(not seam to seam)
(material extends just a bit past seams on both sides directly under armpit)
13. Waist across bottom of jacket: 20 1/2"
(material to material)
14. Shoulder: 7"
(shoulder seam to bottom of collar stand)
(measured in a direct line between the two)
15. Left Sleeve Length: 26 1/2"
16. Right Sleeve Length: 26"

Mac
01-20-2011, 12:57 AM
I'm fairly certain that measurement came from the Asiana Jones "000/888 Tutorial" thread:


#000/888 Measurements that I took:
Front Flap w/ Collar Stand vertically from bottom to top: 23"
Shoulder from sleeve seam to collar seam: ~7"
Sleeves from cuff to sleeve seam: between 25 1/2" to 25 3/4"
Back vertical length from Collar Stand to Lower back panel: 23"
Chest width: 22 1/2"
Waist width: 21 1/2"
Pockets: 8" x 6.5"

Is that 7.5" measurement to the top of the pocket flap or the body of the pocket sans flap?

- Mac

RCSignals
01-20-2011, 01:53 AM
the pockets themselves of mine are 7 1/8 to 7 1/4 tall
with the flap 7.75". I could probably stretch them to 8" maximum with some pulling.
7.75" to 8" isn't too tall, and doesn't look too tall on a pocket that is about 6 1/2" wide.

9" which some jackets out there are, is too tall.

neutronbomb
01-20-2011, 01:55 AM
Just the pocket body itself sans the flap.

One of my TN's measures the same as RCSignals. 7 1/8 pocket body itself and 7 3/4 with flap. The other one is 7 1/8 body itself and 8" with flap.

Gunslinger
01-20-2011, 02:12 AM
The overlays of mine above are with 7 3/4" pockets from base to top of flap, and as you can see, they line up perfectly in the Raven Bar scene, so it's not like the Hawaii has pockets of a different height, either. To my eye, the only difference is the flap shape / size.

RCSignals
01-20-2011, 02:45 AM
I'm not even convinced the flap shape or size is different in reality, beyond any normal variations of a hand made garment.

Gunslinger
01-20-2011, 05:57 AM
...made by Wested. :D

PLATON
01-21-2011, 05:11 PM
Mac is correct.

When I talked about pocket size meant incluing the pocket flap. i.e from the bottom of the pocket to the upper side of the "piped" flap seam.

RCSignals
01-21-2011, 08:26 PM
Mac is correct.

When I talked about pocket size meant incluing the pocket flap. i.e from the bottom of the pocket to the upper side of the "piped" flap seam.




Even if it was 8" what makes you think 8" is too tall? Have you measured the original jacket?

Some recent offerings from certain makers are 9". Now that is tall!

PLATON
01-24-2011, 03:27 PM
8 is tall.
You don't have to measure the original jacket to know this.
8 x 6.5 is tall
8 x 7.5 is not tall but is big

RCSignals
01-24-2011, 05:12 PM
you're right, i don't have to measure the pockets to know. Someone already did it for me. :banllama:

neutronbomb
01-24-2011, 07:17 PM
If you look at all the screengrabs of pockets of the same jacket across the film Platon, you'll probably find what looks like TOD size pockets all the way to USWings size pockets. Camera angles do funny stuff. Here's the same jacket:

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/1-DVD%20SNAP-Truck/Imam_truck1.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Imam%20Jacket%20Pockets/Imam_pocket1.jpg

Here's a couple of The Main Hero Jacket. So for those who want to believe that USWings pocket size is accurate look at these type of screengrabs and say, see I told you so:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Main%20Hero%20Jacket/mainhero_pocket1.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Main%20Hero%20Jacket/mainhero_pocket2.jpg

And for those who say no they were much smaller, they look at this type of screengrab of The Main Hero Jacket or a different one that looks smaller still and say, no I told you so. And round and round we go:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/Raiders-FlyingWingTornPocket.jpg

Notice the undone front side stitching on the jackets right side pocket in The Main Hero Jacket screengrabs above. It looks like a possibility it might be the same on this one in the Raven Bar. Maybe someone else has a better and more clear one of that pocket in the Raven Bar.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Main%20Hero%20Jacket/mainhero_pocket3.jpg

PLATON
01-28-2011, 06:34 PM
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/1-DVD%20SNAP-Truck/Imam_truck1.jpg

I don't think this is the hero.
I think this is the star pic jacket

RCSignals
01-28-2011, 06:53 PM
what is the star pic jacket?

neutronbomb
01-29-2011, 12:28 AM
I don't know for sure. I'm seeing mixed stuff. But, I've thought that all of these are of the same jacket. It would be great if we could know the date the picture was taken.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Jacket%20Pictures/2870211019_400e5889d0_o.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/raiderslrg.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Jacket%20Pictures/jacket-RotLAbw.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Jacket%20Pictures/2871048802_09cb69db10_o.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Shrunken%20Lamb/Unknown-4.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/IJC-0144.jpg

neutronbomb
01-29-2011, 12:29 AM
Platon, you didn't pay attention to my post. I stated this was the Imam jacket (hence the jacket from the Imam scene posted with it) NOT The Main Hero Jacket.



http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/1-DVD%20SNAP-Truck/Imam_truck1.jpg

I don't think this is the hero.
I think this is the star pic jacket

Kaplan
03-03-2011, 01:15 AM
Thanks guys! :banllama:

PLATON
03-03-2011, 07:48 AM
RC Signals; This below is the star pic jacket

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Jacket%20Pictures/2870211019_400e5889d0_o.jpg

Look at the pocket flap and compare with the photo above.

RCSignals
03-03-2011, 08:12 AM
Is that the Cooper jacket? :sheep:

PLATON
03-03-2011, 08:44 AM
Guys, Cooper didn't make lamb jackets in the 80s
nobody in US did. It was a Europe thing

Do you guys have sheep in USA?

RCSignals
03-03-2011, 08:46 AM
..........
Do you guys have sheep in USA?


Is that a trick question?

PLATON
03-03-2011, 09:16 AM
I am joking, here's some:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Sheeponthesouthlawn.jpg

Sheep originated in Europe and Asia though.

What I am trying to say is that no jacket maker in the 80s would use lamb for jacket because it was considered not durable enough.
Still you guys have problems with durability, (no offence) you worry that a 5 gauge zipper won't be durable enough.\

Truth be said, whatever is built in USA, lasts long, very long (at least what was built in the old days, now things must have changed. They don't last too long but outlast others, made elsewhere).

RCSignals
03-03-2011, 05:59 PM
Actually jackets were made of lamb in the US in the '80s. I know they were.

crismans
03-04-2011, 02:23 AM
Wasn't Cooper using shrunken lamb for their A2s during this period? I'm thinking that they were.

RCSignals
03-04-2011, 02:33 AM
Late 70's early 80's was the big time for shrunken lamb on A2 type jackets. Avirex. Cooper, many Korean jacket makers used it for this. Tony Nowak certainly used it.