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View Full Version : Yoke and Back Seam Alignments



Gunslinger
12-12-2010, 05:51 AM
Some of the detail specific people among you may have noticed the way the seams are on the back of my new jacket. I inadvertently got Riley to incorporate the back panel seam into that of the yoke. I said "right to the edge" in my specs, and got this:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/D700-20101212-144422-1.jpg

So I figured, "oops" - no biggie, but it got me curious, as I thought the back panel went right up to the line of the yoke stitching, not the edge of the panel itself. However, when I just checked the flying wing sequence, I found this. You really do need to click on the thumb and then hit 100%:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Back-and-Yoke-Seams-Aligned.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/th_Back-and-Yoke-Seams-Aligned.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/?action=view&current=Back-and-Yoke-Seams-Aligned.jpg)

Looks like a straight line to me... Weird, huh? So I'm wondering where this fits in the whole tracking jackets picture...

djd
12-12-2010, 08:22 AM
It certainly looks like it's right to the edge in those pictures. Certainly no gap like some people would have us believe elsewhere

crismans
12-12-2010, 02:44 PM
There may have been a gap (due to human hands being involved in the creation) on some of the jackets in the production (doesn't look like the main hero falls into that category, however) but I've never seen anything to suggest that there was a conscious, equal gap on both sides of the back panel as some parties have tried to suggest.

Kt Templar
12-12-2010, 02:56 PM
I think the idea was to get the back panel as close to the seam as possible, if there was a small gap then no biggie these were cut and made by hand after all. By small I mean less than 1/2", ideally less than 1/4".

Not 3" though! :'(

RCSignals
12-12-2010, 09:13 PM
I think the back panel does not extend to the edge of the yoke, but it is quite close, ending actually at the shoulder stitch seam. I don't call what is left a 'gap' but some do. To me a gap is any space between that shoulder stitch seam and the edge of the back panel.
That is the way the jacket Tony Nowak had was constructed and I think it is most likely as the 'main Hero' as well. In photos it sometimes appears the back panel is the same width as the yoke, but it is more photo effect.

It is those photos that have caused some people to request the back panel extend 'all the way' to the edge.
This can cause problems though with the 'behavior' of the back panel pleat and also even be the cause of failure/tearing at that point due to stress on that extra stacked spot.

Gunslinger
12-12-2010, 09:29 PM
And that's what I always figured, but it looks quite probable it's fully aligned in these shots. I'm almost wondering if it's aligned on the left but not on the right. From memory, the by the barrels shot show it aligned to the stitching on the right, but you can't see the left one.

RCSignals
12-12-2010, 09:37 PM
I don't think it is aligned in that shot, but the way the back panel has 'moved' gives it the appearance it is.

Gunslinger
12-12-2010, 11:17 PM
I really don't know man. What struck me with these shots is the fact there IS a square lump visible, just like on my new jacket; as well as the effect of a straight-through line. I realise it could be an illusion, but I went and grabbed my other Nowak that just goes to the stitching line, and simply can't recreate what's seen in these shots. If anything, because that back panel -wants- to tug towards the centre, getting that effect as seen on-screen is even more difficult to achieve if it isn't completely aligned in the construction.

Here's the shots I remember from before:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/th_Back-Gap.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/?action=view&current=Back-Gap.jpg)

Clearly coming to the stitching line on the right hand side. VERY touch and go on the left when you look at all of them, especially vs. real-life replicas. Weird.

Maybe Platon's right about there being another jacket in the Flying Wing scene...

Gunslinger
12-12-2010, 11:53 PM
Had another quick look before starting work for the day. (Damn this Indy stuff is bad for procrastinating!) I'm pretty sure I'm right, but it's damn weird. Look:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Left-Yoke-Back-Panel-Alignment.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/th_Left-Yoke-Back-Panel-Alignment.jpg (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/?action=view&current=Left-Yoke-Back-Panel-Alignment.jpg)

Check out the thumb at 100% See the 2 lumps at the top? That's the yoke seem in the middle. And the back hem is clearly to the left hand side, aligned with the left. Have a go trying to replicate that shot there with a regular aligned jacket. So All these shots seem to point to the Main Hero Jacket (?) having a backpanel that is assymetrical. Kind of messed up really. :D

RCSignals
12-12-2010, 11:56 PM
That's certainly possible. Either way the important thing is yours does what is seen on screen which is what you wanted.

Gunslinger
12-13-2010, 12:03 AM
Well, it's HALF-right. :D

At the end of the day it wouldn't be a big deal to have one side realigned (mis-aligned?) to be super duper SA. Probably $100 or so? But though I've strived to make a jacket that looks like crap, I don't know if I can get my head around making it assymetrical like that! It just seems... wrong. :D

RCSignals
12-13-2010, 12:05 AM
I'd just leave it for now. If one side 'blows out' lets hope it's the right side and then you can have it 'fixed' :laugh:

Gunslinger
12-13-2010, 12:21 AM
Oh don't worry - this baby ain't going anywhere. :police:

I normally treat my stuff like crap. I don't just wear it, I will kind of see how much abuse it can take. It part of the point of Indy gear for me. But I feel kind of wrong even wearing this new jacket. I just want to look at it. I've got a "It belongs in a museum!" thing going on in my head, which is very unlike me. Fuck, I need therapy.

djd
12-13-2010, 07:08 AM
I really can't blame you feeling like that about this jacket. I mentioned it to the guy that does the Indycast pod cast. He should do a feature on your 'quest'!

Gunslinger
12-13-2010, 09:54 AM
LOL. Sure. Does he charge by 50 minute session?

djd
12-13-2010, 10:55 AM
Lol! You could explain to him about all the 'experts' who tried to 'help' you!

crismans
12-13-2010, 03:41 PM
I know there used to be quite a bit of discussion about overlapping the leather on one side to get this effect (if I'm remembering correctly), so you're not alone in thinking this, GS. Hopefully, Nefarious will swing by as I think he was one of the ones who had "obssessed" on this point.

KT, didn't several people have Peter make their jackets this way?

TheExit148
12-13-2010, 04:01 PM
KT, didn't several people have Peter make their jackets this way?
I had Peter make my old Wested ROLA jacket like this. I personally didn't like how the pleat behaved, and when I received my Nowak Raiders with the slighest gap, it was much better. I found the aligned panel folded weird on me, but it could have just been my build.

neutronbomb
12-16-2010, 11:35 PM
I may very well be in the minority here, but I don't think it's misaligned. I believe the edge of the back panel goes right to where the stitching is like RCSignals described. I also don't think there's another jacket used in the Flying Wing Fight Scene. In looking frame by frame through the entire sequence and looking at the jacket in it's entirety I believe just one jacket was used. The same one HF used from the spot in the Temple scene from where "Forrestall cashed in" where he's on the spikes (which I believe is a different jacket from the spiders, stay out of the light, boulder run jacket) through the second pit jump, then The Raven Bar, WOS, Flying Wing, horseback, and through the cab fight sequence up until the bullet hole scene.

I would be interested in knowing the sequence in which the Temple scene was filmed. The timeline could be important as it would make a difference if they filmed the Imam's, boulder run, spiders, stay out of the light scenes first and then introduced The Main Hero Jacket that HF wears for the rest of the temple scenes all the way through until the bullet hole in the arm cab fight scene.

This is my theory anyway based on what I see. So in looking at the alignment of the back panel, I also am looking at the jacket in all the scenes in the movie where I believe HF is wearing it and I think it goes right up to where the stitching is. However, it sounds like a few people see it overlapping so even if there was a bit of an oops in interpreting what you meant by "to the edge", it could be argued that it looks as SA as anything else that's out there.

neutronbomb
12-17-2010, 12:03 AM
gunslinger, dude I hate to say this, but I missed that the title of this thread is Yoke and Back Seam alignments. Sorry, my bad. I've never looked at it that way, I've always looked at where the back seam lies in comparison to the arm/shoulder seam that comes up and around. Maybe it's possible that the alignment issue you are talking about with the yoke seam may be impacted by where the back panel is placed in regards to the arm/shoulder seam. You know tolerances and variances in the cuts and everything of the different panels/pieces. What do you think? Or are you thinking that the edge of the yoke seam is always going to be perfectly lined up with the arm/shoulder seam because it is or is a part of it anyway. I don't know, would the yoke edges ever overlap or underlap (for want of a better word) the arm/shoulder seam. Interesting perspective.

Gunslinger
12-17-2010, 12:21 AM
Yeah, it's a weird one. All I can figure is that the seam is different on one side to the other. I'd be curious to find any example of the Main Hero's LH seam in other scenes.

RCSignals
12-17-2010, 03:03 AM
I don't think you messed up NB, at least your posts make sense re the yoke and back panel edge seams.

Gunslinger
12-19-2010, 10:35 PM
Came across these when a folder auto-opened in Adobe Bridge. Confirms the Hero's right-to-the-edge, overlapping left-hand seam config. I wonder about the right in other scenes?

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/2870592760_b2b7090942_o.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/2869775059_260d3794eb_o.jpg

Gunslinger
12-19-2010, 10:39 PM
Ah, there we go. Yep. It's lopsided.

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/vlcsnap-2010-09-07-17h04m35s206-1.png http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/th_vlcsnap-2010-09-07-17h04m35s206-1.png (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-2010-09-07-17h04m35s206-1.png)

RCSignals
12-19-2010, 10:42 PM
In this photo the back panel does look 'all the way to the edge

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/2869775059_260d3794eb_o.jpg

Gunslinger
12-20-2010, 06:29 AM
Just join the conversation here, Holt. No need to start a thread "elsewhere". You know you want to. :police:

djd
12-20-2010, 10:35 AM
If there is a gap on the hero jacket it's very small. nothing like what we see on the Wings jackets, even those with the smaller version of their gap

crismans
12-20-2010, 02:40 PM
If I remember correctly, the Raven Bar and the Well are the same jacket, correct? If this is so, I wonder if the other jackets have this configuration? I doubt it, as that would make it a design feature and what would be the point of that design? It makes more sense to me (although, yeah, I could very well be wrong) that this is just a result of a hand-made garment as we've been discussing. The goal was to get as close to the seam as possible, and someone got right on the seam for the "hero".

So, yeah, DJD, I completely agree. I don't think the design called for 1/4 inch, 1 inch, or any measurable gap on the jackets. I think the goal was to get as close to the seam as possible. Any gaps are a result of human hands making these things. The thing is: Wings can make the jackets without the gaps. The ToD prototype jacket had no discernable gap whatsoever.

RCSignals
12-20-2010, 08:02 PM
the idea is the back panel extends as close to the shoulder stitch seam as possible. that means there is no 'gap' other than the seam itself, which depending on how you perceive it may or may not be a gap. Any gap of the back panel away from the shoulder stitch seam is purely a function of a human sewing the jacket together, and is generally quite a small space, not by 'design' or on purpose.

neutronbomb
02-03-2011, 12:00 AM
It's tough to tell Gunslinger. I don't know if it's lopsided or not. But, here's the best screengrabs I could do. If it doesn't overlap the seam and just goes up to it's inside edge, then I suspect it lines up with top seam that runs up the shoulder because of the curvature of the seam.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_leftbackpanelattachment1.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_leftbackpanelattachment2.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_leftbackpanelattachment3.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_leftbackpanelattachment4.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_leftbackpanelattachment5.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_leftbackpanelattachment6.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment1.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment2.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment3.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment4.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment5.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment6.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment7.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment8.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Back%20Panel%20Attachment/main_rightbackpanelattachment9.jpg

RCSignals
02-03-2011, 12:12 AM
I still believe, and it looks to me, that it is right up to the stich line, and is so close that in some photos it appears to be right to the shoulder.
What it really illustrates is that there is not a gap between the back panel edge and the shoulder stitch line