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crismans
12-02-2010, 01:03 AM
Several have posted over the past two years how they were disappointed with the jacket (actually gear in general) worn by Indy in the last movie. I believe the term "frumpy" might categorize how a lot of these people viewed the gear (it looked too new or "costumey" has also been mentioned a lot). While I think a general dislike of the movie might influence some of these opinions, I had a couple of thoughts as I was wearing my Nowak Crystal Skull jacket today.

One is I just don't like the sleeves. They are too barrel shaped and not tapered. I have a Wested HH jacket that has the same type of sleeves and I don't like it either. It just doesn't present a streamlined appearance. My other Nowak jackets, Wested ToD, and Todd's Standard have more tapered sleeves and present a lot better.

Two (and this has been mentioned before) is the cowhide. I have to differentiate here between real world and movie world. I love the CS cowhide and think it makes an awesome jacket. However, for an action movie where movement is a big part of the equation, it's just too heavy. It looks too staid in comparison with the other jackets that moved around like cloth (a cape I've heard said before).

Now, none of this is to knock Tony. He was given certain parameters to work with and he worked within them. That's why he got the job in the first place. I wonder how, if he had had the knowledge of Indy at the beginning that he had acquired by the end, he would have approached the jacket if he had been allowed the leeway to design his jacket more from scratch.

RCSignals
12-02-2010, 01:32 AM
Are you saying your jacket sleeves are the same diameter from top to bottom? That doesn't seem right.

Anyway, Tony gave them what they wanted, the first jacket he made was what they asked for, an exact duplicate of a jacket they sent him. (which Tony was told came from the Smithsonian and was used in Last Crusade) From there he was told to watch Raiders and concentrate on the jacket, which he did.
Tony took notes on what he saw, how the pockets were used, etc. From there he made suggestions and worked with The costume designer to make changes to the jacket. There were a few changes, pockets, collar, other dimensions, general fit etc.
They wanted a lighter zipper for some reason. tony didn't recommend it, and for the later jackets for Fans recommended the heavier one. Many of those who went of the screen version have had problems with it in 'normal everyday' use.
The jacket is cowhide because it is what was wanted, and actually what he used was close to (fooled them as being exact) the jacket he duplicated.

There were more changes than some who like to sound 'all knowing' have recently claimed.

crismans
12-02-2010, 01:49 AM
Are you saying your jacket sleeves are the same diameter from top to bottom? That doesn't seem right.

No, but I am saying that, as my personal preference, I would have taken about a half inch off the diameter at the bottom of the sleeve. My other Nowaks have more tapered sleeves as Tony was going for the "look" of the other movie jackets (well, not Raiders as he had an original so he didn't have to go for the look there, but you know what I mean).

And, like I said, this isn't a critique of Tony's work. He gave the production what was asked for. What I'm saying is that some of what was asked for might be the root cause of some fan's dissatisfaction with the jackets.

RCSignals
12-02-2010, 01:52 AM
Thanks for the clarification. and yes, probably

djd
12-02-2010, 10:33 AM
I agree Crismans. I didn't like the look of the jacket from the first publicity shot from CS. It looked stiff and heavy. Although the hide looked distressed, the jacket didn't. It looked like a new jacket in a distressed hide. Don't blame the guy who made it. It's obviously what was asked for . The raiders and temple jackets looked like they were twenty years old. That's the look I like and the look I associate with Indiana Jones

PLATON
12-06-2010, 05:00 PM
The LC also looked stiff and heavy.
Peter said it was lamb. Maybe it was thick lamb.

Others said it was treated with whale oil, which I don't believe. (It's ridiculus. Why take lamb and treat it with whale oil to make it stiff and heavy when it's much easier to use cowide instead.)

djd
12-06-2010, 05:10 PM
I agree with you Platon. Up until CS the LC jacket was my least favourite by far...

RCSignals
12-08-2010, 09:18 PM
Are you saying your jacket sleeves are the same diameter from top to bottom? That doesn't seem right.

Anyway, Tony gave them what they wanted, the first jacket he made was what they asked for, an exact duplicate of a jacket they sent him. (which Tony was told came from the Smithsonian and was used in Last Crusade) From there he was told to watch Raiders and concentrate on the jacket, which he did.
Tony took notes on what he saw, how the pockets were used, etc. From there he made suggestions and worked with The costume designer to make changes to the jacket. There were a few changes, pockets, collar, other dimensions, general fit etc.
They wanted a lighter zipper for some reason. tony didn't recommend it, and for the later jackets for Fans recommended the heavier one. Many of those who went of the screen version have had problems with it in 'normal everyday' use.
The jacket is cowhide because it is what was wanted, and actually what he used was close to (fooled them as being exact) the jacket he duplicated.

There were more changes than some who like to sound 'all knowing' have recently claimed.



Another change suggested and made by Tony, was the addition of inside facings. The jacket he was given to copy didn't have them (just as the LC jacket doesn't have them)

crismans
12-08-2010, 10:17 PM
None of the jackets had facings before CS, of course.

DeWayne
12-22-2010, 09:15 AM
I've often described Indy's jacket (especially in Raiders, but still to a degree in ToD and LC) as almost like a superhero's cape. The subliminal effect of this is there from the first shot of Raiders, it's carried throughout the movie. I think it's the main reason the Indy costume had such an effect on me at seven years old, but I digress....

I am not fond of the CS jacket. It looks like what most people think an Indy jacket is; some thick predistressed cowhide jacket pulled off the rack at Wilson's. It's unfortunate, because of the amazing shape that Ford was in for his age at the time of shooting, was completely covered up by the jacket. It looked heavy and cumbersome to move around in.

djd
12-22-2010, 09:31 AM
I agree 100%. The fact that it was so stiff made Ford look old and skinny. Like he was wearing a younger man's jacket that no longer fitted him. If he was indeed still about the same weight and build as he was 20 years earlier, they did a grand job of concealing this under that jacket! From the shots I've seen, he actually looks younger and better in the new cowboys and aliens film

crismans
01-05-2011, 06:31 PM
Yeah, I have to agree. I know that Tony gave them what was wanted, but I don't agree with what was wanted. I can understand the whole concept of wanting a wardrobe that would last in the real world, but that doesn't necessarily translate well on screen.

Nefarious
01-12-2011, 06:04 PM
hey folks........sorry i haven't been around as of late but i definitely wanted to chime in on this conversation as crismans brings up some really good points.

the man behind the 'costume' of course is bernie pollack who has been HF's costume designer for the better part of the 90's up to present (one thing that i notice is that HF is always in relaxed fit wrangler jeans if he is wearing denim....don't know if that is bernie's doing or HF's insistance....but i digress...LOL). from what i could gather, bernie had a noob understanding of indy's costume and relied heavily on what was in the archives....he should of consulted the experts instead....and if he did, perhaps not the correct experts ;)

though his entire ensemble may not be readily accepted by us die-hard fans.....and i think the reason for that is because we still see indy as the nity grity, make it up as you go along, cairo murderring, scruffy nurf herder that he is in the 30's.....as opposed to the tenured marshall college, international archeoligist and war veteran/hero that he is in the 50's. I've heard indy getting jabs about "doesn't he change his wardrobe in 20+ years????"........maybe he did. maybe bernie wanted indy in adventure clothes which were becoming of his established status. case in point - i will never buy a mall leather jacket again. maybe some of indy's refinements comes off in his wardrobe. his outfit did look 'squeeky clean' no - but you know as much as i do that all of his clothes are adventure ready and could take one hell of a beating.......not sure if his WWII MKVI bag could handle it, but everything else for sure.........

djd
01-12-2011, 06:11 PM
I think thats rather too subtle a point for anyone on the audience to get. If that was the idea then it's just another example of the film missing the mark. Intentions aside, the bottom line for me is that he just didn't look good in it. Hd looked like an ok'd man who was trying to hide his old body under baggy clothes. Given that his body still looks pretty good this was a dumb idea. Young kids (and even older kids) have a hard enough time accepting old looking heroes at the best of times.

Nefarious
01-12-2011, 06:25 PM
based on your thinking djd, and knowing HF's quirks....he probably picked those clothes out to look like that. he's probably too old, too rich, and too set in his ways to wear an ill fitting jacket with a bronze painted/misaligned zipper that breaks easily and a collar that was disproportionate to the front panels. maybe HF wanted indy to look like that? i don't know. it was probably the least favorite look for our hero for sure. but i betcha the kids liked it ;D

yes CS was just plain bad imo....the only saving grace was that there was an indy appearance in 2008 rather than no appearance.

djd
01-12-2011, 06:44 PM
Sorry nefarious if I came over a triffle rude... Trying to type too quick on iPhone. You're right, it's just my opinion. You're also probably right about it being HFs choice. Just goes to show that most actors don't know what's best for them (look at his crummy choice of film roles over recent years!). The studio system of the 30s and 40s had a lot of bad points but at least the actors got little choice in the films they appeared in :)

Kt Templar
01-12-2011, 06:53 PM
As for wardrobe choices....

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/272/harrisonford.jpg (http://img593.imageshack.us/i/harrisonford.jpg/)

:wtf:

G-MANN
01-12-2011, 08:56 PM
Well I do like what she is wearing.

RCSignals
01-12-2011, 09:11 PM
Tony Nowak was also a Noob to Indiana Jones. He was originally to only do the Mutt jacket. That was to be an near copy of Marlon Brando's jacket from the Wild One.
When Tony was given a shot at the Indiana Jones jacket, after the jacket they wanted copied that he did 'exact, they wanted to work on some changes. Tony was told to watch Raiders, and focus on the jacket. None of the other movies, just Raiders. It is interesting that since Raiders was where they sent him, Raiders isn't the jacket that was looked to for pattern.
(It was in this watching of Raiders BTW that Tony first noticed what he knew as 'shrunken Lamb' and was later confirmed when he had the actual jacket in hand)

crismans
01-12-2011, 09:24 PM
Well I do like what she is wearing.


I started to ask if Harrison was in that picture. Ms. McAdams is "perky".

RCSignals
01-12-2011, 10:01 PM
Well I do like what she is wearing.


I started to ask if Harrison was in that picture. Ms. McAdams is "perky".


Yes she is :meaculpa:

and as for Harrison, i at first was wondering who the lady was wearing the wacky scarf :whip:

G-MANN
01-12-2011, 10:38 PM
Actually, I guess it's what she is NOT wearing that I like.

Cheers,
John

Nefarious
01-13-2011, 02:23 AM
hey djd, i didn't think you came off rude at all. your opinion was well packaged imo, so no worries :)

crismans......you stole my line!