PDA

View Full Version : Indy V Jackets



Raider S
11-19-2010, 05:06 PM
If there is indeed an Indy V (Indy and the Attack of the Clones?) is the general consensus the production will use already available Nowak CS jackets or find a new maker?

If most of the CS Nowak's are still in studio possession (I do not know if this is the case but assume so given some things I read some time ago) and the film is set in a similar time period to CS, what would be the rationale for completely new run of jackets. Or even hats? Now if the story is set in a previous era, or takes some radical departure, maybe there will be a true need for a new jacket.

djd
11-19-2010, 05:32 PM
What about just changing the jacket because it looked horrible in CS?? I hated it. Looked stiff and too big on Ford . TN could clearly make a great jacket but they should never have gone with this one in my view.

deadseascrolls
11-19-2010, 05:41 PM
If there is indeed an Indy V (Indy and the Attack of the Clones?) is the general consensus the production will use already available Nowak CS jackets or find a new maker?

If most of the CS Nowak's are still in studio possession (I do not know if this is the case but assume so given some things I read some time ago) and the film is set in a similar time period to CS, what would be the rationale for completely new run of jackets. Or even hats? Now if the story is set in a previous era, or takes some radical departure, maybe there will be a true need for a new jacket.


I've wondered this as well Raider S. When Fedora mentioned he was not going to make the hats for the next film and was going to refer Bernie to someone else of his (Fedora's) choosing, I got to wondering about everything else. I'm assuming they didn't go through all 30 some (or is it 60 too?) shirts of Ford's, so will probably be using those. As for the trousers, I can't imagine them beating up 60+ pairs of trousers, so I'm sure they've also got a lot of them left over (unless Ford gets the munchies and gains more or vice versa). It's my understanding Ford did a lot of his own stunts, so I would think they've got a lot of jackets left. And I think that Bernie, given the daunting task of trying to recreate everything, would've wanted to "buy more" than he needed to make sure that he not only had enough for the movie, but a good starting point for if/when a new one would be made.

As for the hats. As you're most likely aware, Bernie was so impressed with the quality and durability of the hats he got that he exclaimed that he had more than enough left over for another film. Now here's my question - did he actually mean that or was it more of an exaggerated claim to help emphasize how good they actually stood up to the filming. The answer to this will help to answer the overall question of whether or not he actually has enough left for the next film and, thus, won't be "shopping around" for another maker.

The way they churned things out for this last film, I just can't help but think they have enough left over for the next film. However, knowing Hollywood, I don't know if Spielberg or Lucas would churn at having to use "new old stock" and want everything to be made entirely new again. Would seem a waste to do so, but big productions tend to do so. Why use "new old stock" when you have the budget to afford "new new stock". If this is the case, throw the "new old stock" out on auction for fans to bid/purchase. But I'm sure that would divulge many of the nuance differences that LFL puts into these cloths to make them hard to duplicate for fans so perhaps they will just be sitting in a box in the archives for all eternity.

Oh, what I wouldn't give for just a few minutes in the LF archives!

DSS

Raider S
11-19-2010, 05:49 PM
DSS, that's correct. I also wanted to make the point about spending money for the sake of spending money. That seems to happen lots in the film biz! Even if there are plenty of items in storage ready to go for a new film, there will be some "reason" to use new wardrobe.

Marauder
11-19-2010, 06:23 PM
there were 36 jackets made for CS. Some may have been used up, but I'd think not all.
I have the impression one of the reasons they had so many made, and hats too (although i wouldn't be surprised if most of the hat's hadn't 'walked away) was to have tehm for the next movie.

I know some people didn't like the jacket in CS, but it's what they wanted so it's what they got.

and then there is Mutt :laugh:

TheExit148
11-19-2010, 06:57 PM
If the jackets are available, why not use them? It would save from going through the process of creating new ones. The CS jacket isn't bad, just its a big "baggy" for my own personal taste.

Junior
11-20-2010, 12:52 PM
Remember Not all the jackets, hats, shirts, and pants were made for Ford alone. They were also made for the various sized stuntmen too. As I recall 9 hats alone were made for HF. ;)

deadseascrolls
11-20-2010, 02:15 PM
Remember Not all the jackets, hats, shirts, and pants were made for Ford alone. They were also made for the various sized stuntmen too. As I recall 9 hats alone were made for HF. ;)


I recall that as well now Junior. Also, they had Fedora make a number of hats that were specifically for giving away (i.e. when Harrison pulled one and signed it for Shia; one for John Williams; etc...), so if I understand correctly, those that were given away were not part of the original grouping of hats made for the production. But I'm somewhat hazy on that and can't remember off-hand where I read or heard it. So unless I (or you guys/gals) can find it, take this with a grain of salt.

DSS

RCSignals
11-20-2010, 05:38 PM
Remember Not all the jackets, hats, shirts, and pants were made for Ford alone. They were also made for the various sized stuntmen too. As I recall 9 hats alone were made for HF. ;)


It's my understanding that at least the majority, if not all of the 36 jackets were made in Ford's size.

deadseascrolls
11-20-2010, 06:28 PM
Remember Not all the jackets, hats, shirts, and pants were made for Ford alone. They were also made for the various sized stuntmen too. As I recall 9 hats alone were made for HF. ;)


It's my understanding that at least the majority, if not all of the 36 jackets were made in Ford's size.


RC, that seems correct. And Junior's statement above I believe concurs with you on that. He simply stated that not "all" the jackets, etc. were made for Ford alone. I know he agrees that some were made for stunt-doubles, etc. So both of you are more than correct on your understandings. And on the extras DVD, Bernie said that he made "a few oversized in case they needed to have extra padding". So again, it all depends on Bernie's underlying meaning as the statement is quite vague as to how many exactly he made for Ford and how many were for the stunt-doubles. Most people, when using the word "few" generally mean 3; however, I don't think that number applies for Bernie's statement as they would need more than 3 jackets, especially for grueling stunts which involve a lot of wear and tear.

DSS

The Character
11-21-2010, 03:14 PM
I'm with djd on this i'm afraid

Start again .. the CS jacket sucks!.. and frankly other than the basic Indy in shirt and pants look upto the rocket sled chase sequence ... so did every other outfit in CS.

They need a new costume designer that knows how to make Fords Indy costume look good ..even the suits looked appalling in CS. ... in CS the sagging crotch look on his suits was awful and putting a guy with grey hair in grey and beige suits was just unbelivable!... Look at Fords sharp dark suits in Firewall which were great and because of it he looked younger and sharp!..
Whether there's bad blood between LF and peter now or not just get a CS jacket and make it in a proper lambskin ....

While we're on it dressing Mutt as Brando is fine if the character was in any way similar but Mutt's one dimensional middle class kid with a chip on his shoulder comes nowhere near Brando's rough tough wrong side of the street persona.... I

TC

djd
11-21-2010, 04:37 PM
You'll not be surprised to hear that I agree with all of that. Far from making Ford look younger in CS, they managed to make him look older! He looks better in the shots from cowboys and aliens we've seen so far. The stiff, overly large CS jacket makes him look like a shrivelled old man - when clearly he's actually in good shape and a similar weight and build to how he was in the 80's. Not knocking Tony as clearly he gave them what they wanted and clearly from the fan jackets he made he could have made an fabulous jacket

Raider S
11-21-2010, 05:05 PM
I didn't like the CS movie itself. That colors my opinion of every part of it including the costumes. Just look at that fool Oxley! If the movie had been decent my feeling is we'd all like the costumes that much more. I like the CS jacket - it looks great in some scenes. It's not my favorite but I've never seen any of the others on an older Ford. That change in age makes quite a difference.

RCSignals
11-21-2010, 05:50 PM
As a jacket goes and aside from what is seen on screen, I like the CS jacket. i have one, it is hte best fitting and most comfortable of the jackets. The jacket itself is not 'baggy' the sleeves are bigger, tehe arm hole is bigger, but that is it.

JMO and experience. All the I-J jackets are great though, but the CS is the one that is most 'real'. Maybe that is what is 'wrong' with it.

djd
11-21-2010, 07:21 PM
Lol maybe so.

It just looks baggy on ford. To me at least. I also think that as the films have gone on the distressing on the jackets has looked worse and worse. In raiders and temple the jacket looked genuinely beaten up ( to my eye). In LC the distressing looked very artificial. In CS it just looked like a predistressed hide on an otherwise new looking jacket. Just my take I know. We all have slightly different tastes in these things ;)

Raider S
11-21-2010, 07:52 PM
Temple distressing was the best. Raiders fine. LC too fake. CS somewhere between Raiders and LC.

Tibor
11-21-2010, 11:50 PM
Lol maybe so.

It just looks baggy on ford. To me at least. I also think that as the films have gone on the distressing on the jackets has looked worse and worse. In raiders and temple the jacket looked genuinely beaten up ( to my eye). In LC the distressing looked very artificial. In CS it just looked like a predistressed hide on an otherwise new looking jacket. Just my take I know. We all have slightly different tastes in these things ;)


Exactly! I always thought the same thing. The CS definitely looked predistressed and had the cut of a car coat. I've never warmed to that, but I do believe when people say it's the most comfy. It is the most conventional cut with none of the drape off the shoulders stuff. I think the CS jacket looks lots better in person, and less good on screen.

RCSignals
11-22-2010, 02:43 AM
Lol maybe so.

It just looks baggy on ford. To me at least. I also think that as the films have gone on the distressing on the jackets has looked worse and worse. In raiders and temple the jacket looked genuinely beaten up ( to my eye). In LC the distressing looked very artificial. In CS it just looked like a predistressed hide on an otherwise new looking jacket. Just my take I know. We all have slightly different tastes in these things ;)


That's about right.
The jacket of ToD was most beat up. Actually coming apart.
The LC and CS jackets are actually very close in general fit. The distressing completely different obviously.

The wardrobe crew did distress those CS jackets, but not enough I guess.

Many people have the impression the CS jacket is long, it actually is the shortest in front by measurement and in back falls where the others do pretty much.

Gunslinger
11-22-2010, 02:53 AM
I didn't like the "real world" approach Bernie took. It isn't the real world - it's a movie!

RCSignals
11-22-2010, 03:12 AM
Very true Gunslinger. a lot of what is great on screen doesn't translate to the real world and that's fine.
The T3 jacket is an example of something that isn't much 'real world' but worked well for the movie.

The Raiders jacket probably isn't too real world either. I wonder how rack of them would do at 'Sears' or something like 'Burlington coat factory'

G-MANN
11-22-2010, 03:15 AM
Did the POOPMASTER go Bye Bye already?

Marauder
11-22-2010, 03:21 AM
Did the POOPMASTER go Bye Bye already?


Just so people don't think he/she was banned or something, that member asked for his/her account to be deleted.

Maybe curiosity will bring him/her back

deadseascrolls
11-22-2010, 03:23 AM
Did the POOPMASTER go Bye Bye already?


I can't believe it but he's not listed under the members directory anymore! :o A real shame, because not many people have the guts to make such an impact with a first post like that :D I gotta say, I admired the guy for his chops doing that, however weird and disgusting I agree it was.

Perhaps he was one of the "George Lucas minions" watching us? DUM, DUM, DUM!!!

DSS

deadseascrolls
11-22-2010, 03:27 AM
Just so people don't think he/she was banned or something, that member asked for his/her account to be deleted.

Maybe curiosity will bring him/her back


Marauder,

I never even gave that option consideration. Knowing the admin and moderators here at F&G, it would take A LOT, and I mean A LOT, to warrant even consideration of a suspention or ban. That's what's so great about this place. There is a high tolerance and respect for the voice, as has so many times been mentioned here.

Keep it up Admin and Mods! You're doing a WONDERFUL job! My hat (and jacket, and belt are off to you. But my shirt and pants belong to me ;) )

DSS

Gunslinger
11-22-2010, 03:34 AM
Very true Gunslinger. a lot of what is great on screen doesn't translate to the real world and that's fine.
The T3 jacket is an example of something that isn't much 'real world' but worked well for the movie.

The Raiders jacket probably isn't too real world either. I wonder how rack of them would do at 'Sears' or something like 'Burlington coat factory'


I was more thinking that something build very rigidly may stand up in the real world, but you NEED it to look beaten up in something like an Indy movie. Not that someone can't make something tough look like its been beaten to shit, but starting with lamb, which has its own drape, etc. sure helps.

G-MANN
11-22-2010, 03:35 AM
Did the POOPMASTER go Bye Bye already?


Just so people don't think he/she was banned or something, that member asked for his/her account to be deleted.

Maybe curiosity will bring him/her back


I figured it was something like that. I never thought for a second that he was banned. Sorry for the interuption.

M

The Character
11-23-2010, 12:51 PM
he was right in a way in that the old fashioned way of conditioning and dying leather was with urine and faeces which were both part of the dying process as the ammonia generated by the urine played part of the tanning:

'Skins typically arrived at the tannery dried stiff and dirty with soil and gore. First, the ancient tanners would soak the skins in water to clean and soften them. Then they would pound and scour the skin to remove any remaining flesh and fat. Next, the tanner needed to remove the hair fibers from the skin. This was done by either soaking the skin in urine, painting it with an alkaline lime mixture, or simply letting the skin putrefy for several months then dipping it in a salt solution. After the hair fibers were loosened, the tanners scraped them off with a knife.
Once the hair was removed, the tanners would bate the material by pounding dung into the skin or soaking the skin in a solution of animal br

ains. Among the kinds of dung commonly used were that of dogs or pigeons. Sometimes the dung was mixed with water in a large vat, and the prepared skins were kneaded in the dung water until they became supple, but not too soft. The ancient tanner might use his bare feet to knead the skins in the dung water, and the kneading could last two or three hours.
It was this combination of urine, animal feces and decaying flesh that made ancient tanneries so odiferous.'

Still i'm not sure who would want to go down that particular 'self tanning' avenue!!!! lol

The Character
11-23-2010, 01:04 PM
Having gone way off topic and with our detour to Poopsville now over .... all that said said, that i'd like to see Indy go back to a more rough n ready look that he had in Raiders and Temple rather than the later progression from adding the Tie in LC to the 'sports coat' of CS. Just MO.

to me its like Superman to Clark Kent ... Dr Henry Jones is a clean cut tenured professor of archeology .... Indiana Jones is a rough tough hard living seat of the pants field archeologist .... as Deb Nadoolman herself said ... he should look like he ate slept and made love in those clothes!.

In CS after the rocket sled sequence 'the Aging but clean cut Dr Henry jones becomes aging but clean cut Indiana jones .... it feels like the lines are a bit too blurred.

Again up to that moment ... in the bedraggled shirt n pants ... thats Indy! anyway I'm sure that they will get it right.

TC