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View Full Version : An Idiots Guide to Leather



Gunslinger
10-28-2010, 05:43 AM
Some morons like to spout out about stuff because they're getting kickbacks or just like to manipulate people. For those of us with an open mind and a pair of eyes, here are some photographic examples of this stuff called LEATHER. The shots in question come from animals called SHEEP. Like humans, SHEEP have skin, and it wrinkles. You know, like when you stay in the pool for too long. Now, what you'll find is the GOOD QUALITY leathers - like the stuff that comes from ITALY and not, say... CHINA tends to look - what's the word I'm looking for... Less PLEATHERY.

Anyways, I digress. Here is one of the hides I had Riley use for my 31/888 Raiders jacket:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Nowak-Shrunken-Hide-3.jpg

See how it has some very specific patterning? How it looks kinda like... skin that's been... tanned? Now look at a couple more:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/9.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/4.jpg

Note how they're different. That the grain structure is different, yet the same. Almost like they came from 3 different skins of the same breed of an animal that was tanned in a certain way. Because anyone that would suggest that they are stamped would have to be some sort of sociopath who impersonates a girlfriend Norman Bates-style, in a way of writing that's clearly his own, yeah? ;)

Sorry! Sorry! Digressing again!

Aaanyways, a little while ago, I also got to deal with a completely different person in leather - people, actually. We shot the breeze about shrunken lamb, exchanged many photos, and they sent me a couple of samples. They said, "Oh, yeah, we've got a bunch of that. Enough for a few jackets. I'll send you samples!" And I got this:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/_DSC2274.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/_DSC2264.jpg

...which I thought were pretty cool. So I jumped on a plane, went to the secret stash and bought about 30 hides. Got to hand-pick them myself, which was VERY cool! I also took my Riley-made Tony Nowak Originals jacket. While there, I ran into a guy who runs a leather garment company that supplies a bunch of VERY high end labels. He was in love with both the leather, the craftsmanship, AND... yes, that it was an Indy jacket. Never once said that it was stamped or nothin'! In fact, he and the owner of this leather wholesalers also identified EXACTLY what breed it was, where it came from, the fact it was Italian leather, and even the tannery. He then offered to do me a batch of the stuff if I had a lazy $12,000. I said no thanks. Long story short, the Tony Nowak hides, like the others you see below are top-notch, grown in the southern hemisphere, and sent to Italy for tanning, using the same techniques they used 30 years ago.

I sorted through the hides for about 2 hours and bought a few for myself and some friends. This is about a third of the 180 square feet I bought:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/D700-20101001-100732.jpg

Again, same, but different. Looks like a non-descript jacket we've looked at from time to time.
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/D700-20101002-161348.jpg http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/Raiders-chestpanel.jpg

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/D700-20101002-161438.jpg

So I guess my point is some fat dumbarses who either don't know what they're talking about or like to -shall we say- bend the truth may want to think twice before thinking that their little clique can profit by speading crap that they think can't be challenged.

HWaltonJonesJr.Phd
10-28-2010, 04:12 PM
Let it out man, let it out! The nonsensical spinning of info elsewhere makes me lose my cool as well. Enough is enough. Thank goodness there is a place of refuge... 8)

Kt Templar
10-28-2010, 04:50 PM
Those 2 piles of skins to seem to show they are pretty small. Is that an accurate deduction?

RCSignals
10-28-2010, 05:44 PM
Those 2 piles of skins to seem to show they are pretty small. Is that an accurate deduction?


One thing you have to know is the hides are not permanently 'shrunk'. The process 'draws up' the cell structure and the hides become 'smaller', but they stretch out to size. That is one of the aspects that makes these skins difficult to work with.

baldwyn
10-28-2010, 06:37 PM
Man, I've missed you guys!

Gunslinger
10-28-2010, 08:31 PM
Those 2 piles of skins to seem to show they are pretty small. Is that an accurate deduction?


They're not that small. I think it's the wide-angle lens I used. On average, each of my hides are 8 sq ft, though of course they did vary. Tony's hides are on average a little smaller due to the fact the shrinkage is slightly more pronounced.


Balwyn & HW, happy to oblige! :D

Kt Templar
10-28-2010, 08:39 PM
Those 2 piles of skins to seem to show they are pretty small. Is that an accurate deduction?


They're not that small. I think it's the wide-angle lens I used. On average, each of my hides are 8 sq ft, though of course they did vary. Tony's hides are on average a little smaller due to the fact the shrinkage is slightly more pronounced.


Balwyn & HW, happy to oblige! :D


The smaller pile looks like you'd struggle to get a sleeve out of those. Pockets and collars I guess.

Gunslinger
10-28-2010, 08:46 PM
All illusion - each pile is the same size - about 8 feet. You can fit a 25" length stormflap front panel down them easily with room to spare. A can take another shot of me holding one if you like?

baldwyn
10-28-2010, 09:07 PM
These skins look amazing. Best stuff ever. Those ridge marks match that Barrel shot exactly. You must have been really excited! How does the stuff distress? Brown, grey, reddish?

Gunslinger
10-28-2010, 09:13 PM
Man, I tell you, it's AMAZING! I haven't tried to distress it yet - it isn't even a jacket yet. My share of these babies should be back from Riley in a different form in a few weeks. And as with the Tony Nowak hides that are pictured above, the striations all hit where they should. WIth my new jacket, I've marked up most of the panels myself, and am finding some incredible consistencies that allow us to see the orientation that the original hides were cut at. I know what part of the hide the yoke was cut from, for instance, and the orientation.

Gunslinger
10-28-2010, 09:20 PM
From elsewhere: "This, when what I'm doing is saying I was wrong and that they were right. This from a group claiming they are not sitting around griping and slamming COW."

Seeing I know you're here, we're not - and don't flatter yourself. What I am doing is defending a dead friend who you are calling a liar that's selling "stamped" leather, among other things. It's not cool. Watch what you type big boy. Feel free to identify yourself here and interact. While some of us are banned elsewhere for clarifying the truth about what Sarge offered us (among other things), you are quite welcome to debate your point-of-view here.

crismans
10-28-2010, 09:24 PM
Let it out man, let it out! The nonsensical spinning of info elsewhere makes me lose my cool as well. Enough is enough. Thank goodness there is a place of refuge... 8)



The problem is the shutting down of information. Things were being spun one way to generate sales (and, it appears, kickbacks) to the detriment of Tony Nowak and others. Now, for whatever reason, it's coming back to the other side--maybe because the lies are threatening to topple under their own weight? I really don't know. And I guess now "Tony wasn't wrong." posts will be the order of the day.

Unfortunately, those of us who decided to stick by what Tony had said because we thought the man was right were hounded out of Dodge, because we didn't buy the "company line" and decided to speak up. Not be rude or discourteous just simply not agree with what was being spread. Doesn't matter now as I personally like the atmosphere here better, but it did send a lot of people on the proverbial wild goosechase. Not the first time this has happened either.

I'm sure the inevitable apologies and "I'm only human"s will follow until the cycle starts anew and someone is brow-beaten for daring to disagree. You think people could recognize this as it's quite transparent. I saw it happen at least a half dozen times in the period I was "elsewhere".

That being said (and sorry for it being off topic, but it was something I needed to say) those hides look terrific, Gunslinger. It's also good to get an independent verification of what Tony was saying (and Peter too, after a while and to an extent) all along.

*edited because gunslinger was typing while I was. I see I was right about what part of the cycle we're in now. ;)

baldwyn
10-28-2010, 10:25 PM
From elsewhere: "This, when what I'm doing is saying I was wrong and that they were right. This from a group claiming they are not sitting around griping and slamming COW."

Seeing I know you're here, we're not - and don't flatter yourself. What I am doing is defending a dead friend who you are calling a liar that's selling "stamped" leather, among other things. It's not cool. Watch what you type big boy. Feel free to identify yourself here and interact. While some of us are banned elsewhere for clarifying the truth about what Sarge offered us (among other things), you are quite welcome to debate your point-of-view here.


That comment came from, what I believe, to be the pictures being posted over on COW with the Fortune and Glory text on them. The message seemed plain to me; healthy, interesting debates about the subjects, and not censoring of information because it disturbs too many sensibilities? I think he took the text to mean COW is being slammed.

I really didn't understand the point of the jabs about the leather getting smoother as it's worn. He apologized for being so stubborn about the shrunken lamb, why not just leave it at that. When you hold Tony's shrunken lamb in your hand, it's clear it's not stamped. Of course it can get smoother. Sarge's stuff looks really great. At the price he's offering us, it's really hard to beat that deal.

Man, your jacket is going to rock. I suspect that hide distresses grey, which is perfect for the Barrel jacket.

neutronbomb
10-28-2010, 10:37 PM
Yes, but Gunslinger, it's EMBOSSED/STAMPED isn't it?? ??? ??? :rolleyes:

At some point it progresses far beyond comprehension that a pathological liar is allowed free reign. Especially when buying decisions are being made by a community. The irresponsibility of those in charge to allow this to happen and to tolerate it at the expense of all Indy Fans defies explanation. There is just no way any longer to give them the benefit of the doubt. The cover-ups, whenever anyone points out the fantasy story, banning and deleting to hide it all, playing along in all the games. Their eyes are open. The deceit is purposeful. Why. That's the real question.

Maybe it's an act of kindness or pity. A place where the soft in the head guy can have a place to call home. Everyone just looks away and gives that sick shameful smile. Hey, we'll play along. It does seem to give him a measure of happiness; a sense of belonging. After all, who does it really hurt?

Or maybe, they think of it like Dungeons and Dragons. It's all just a game and pretend anyway. What's the problem. We thought everyone knew it was a fantasy role playing site. After all, who does it really hurt? It's not like George Lucas cares that texts and messages attributed to him are being used for the promotion of unlicensed Indiana Jones merchandise.

Or maybe it's for the comps. We're always on the lookout for a comp over here. Ring, Ring......Ring, Ring.......Hello Tony Nowak. Yes, this PL. I have two associates on the line. We understand you made complimentary jacket for some of the staff on CS. Well the three of us are staff on the CS production and Bernie told us to give you a call to get our Crystal Skull complimentary jackets. Ah, yes, we are also are in charge of letting everyone who's interested in purchasing Indiana Jones jackets and clothes know who they should buy from. It would be a good idea for you to get us those complimentary jackets if you want any sales if you know what I mean. Hey, afterall, who does it really hurt? Shhhh.....though, no one knows about us and those CS jackets. The Wings is the first. wink, wink.

Or maybe they just don't care that a really generous, stand up, loved by many, good guy's reputation and image is totally thrashed at the whim of ole PL. Creating non-existent emails from Tony right after he died. Who could have imagined someone else would have access to Tony's email system. Ah yes, and can we forget Arnold. Dang it, who'd a thunk he'd show up to the funeral and be thanked for confirming Tony's death for all of us via phone to PL. And yeah, yeah, we know he was at Fort MacArthur and stood there next to Tony while Tony went over all his leathers and especially Shrunken Lamb. Explained the process and everything. Hey and he even got to check out and see one our Shrunken Lamb Raiders that we brought along and some guys really enhanced version. So we know he knows. What's that. No we don't see any problem with him now saying Tony used embossed/stamped leather. After all, who does it really hurt? It's not like Tony's here to defend himself or anything.

No......ummm....no...it's not really a consideration that person after person after person owns these shrunken lamb jackets from Tony and can confirm they're not embossed. Or that stories are invented about how Tony "admitted" he just took a wild "guess". Nah, no one will ever catch on or stand up and say. Really, you counseled Tony on his business, lent him money, had him sign a contract turning his business over if he didn't pay up. It's amazing. The simple thought that oh Tony's gone. Nobody will care. Nobody will check. Nobody has access to phone records, nobody has access to banking records. Just didn't enter the equation. After all, who does it really hurt?

Because when you're dealing with a pathological liar they can explain their way out of anything. Always an excuse. I mixed the iphones up. Sure, sure.

So enjoy your embossed jacket Gunslinger, because you know, next thing it'll be in a write up and accepted as true by the sycophants. After all, who does it it really hurt? The new guy who makes a purchasing decision. No. Who cares about them. A family's business. No. Who cares about them. The reputation of a real stand up guy's legacy. No. Fans who want accurate information. No. No. No. What don't you understand. We....just.....don't.....care.

crismans
10-29-2010, 12:23 AM
That comment came from, what I believe, to be the pictures being posted over on COW with the Fortune and Glory text on them. The message seemed plain to me; healthy, interesting debates about the subjects, and not censoring of information because it disturbs too many sensibilities? I think he took the text to mean COW is being slammed.

I'm not sure how to read this, Baldwyn. Is the message you are referring being the one coming from the person from "elsewhere" or is that the message you perceive as coming from here?

Because if it's the latter, you are right on the money. All anyone here wants is to be able to have healthy, interesting debates. Sure we all have our biases, but you're not going to be shown the door because you don't agree with them. I may not agree with what you're saying, but you're free to say it loud and clear. If you think elsewhere wants those kind of healthy debates, not trying to attack you at all, but you haven't been paying attention.

As for the F & G text on the photos? It may be me, but it seems to be dirty pool to ban people for questioning the company line and standing by a friend only then link to their pics to try to prove the "story of the week". I mean at least have the decency/sense to put the pics in your own account. I know I don't like my work being twisted to fit the lies of another.

baldwyn
10-29-2010, 12:40 AM
That comment came from, what I believe, to be the pictures being posted over on COW with the Fortune and Glory text on them. The message seemed plain to me; healthy, interesting debates about the subjects, and not censoring of information because it disturbs too many sensibilities? I think he took the text to mean COW is being slammed.

I'm not sure how to read this, Baldwyn. Is the message you are referring being the one coming from the person from "elsewhere" or is that the message you perceive as coming from here?

Because if it's the latter, you are right on the money. All anyone here wants is to be able to have healthy, interesting debates. Sure we all have our biases, but you're not going to be shown the door because you don't agree with them. I may not agree with what you're saying, but you're free to say it loud and clear. If you think elsewhere wants those kind of healthy debates, not trying to attack you at all, but you haven't been paying attention.

As for the F & G text on the photos? It may be me, but it seems to be dirty pool to ban people for questioning the company line and standing by a friend only then link to their pics to try to prove the "story of the week". I mean at least have the decency/sense to put the pics in your own account. I know I don't like my work being twisted to fit the lies of another.


I was saying that the person from "elsewhere" made the comment because of the text on the pictures. The latter portion was my take on the text on the pictures. I hadn't heard of this place until those started showing up!

crismans
10-29-2010, 01:10 AM
Got you! Like I said, I wasn't trying to be confrontational. I really wasn't sure what you were meaning.

RCSignals
10-29-2010, 05:26 AM
I agree Baldwyn why go on about the leather smoothing out in use (it doesn't) and make remarks about it being 'embossed' if you've apologised and admitted you were wrong?
Then again is a backhanded apology an apology? Tony still 'guessed'?
The promised eating of crow hasn't happened yet.

John vaughan
12-03-2010, 07:55 PM
8) suddenly, I'm glad I heard about this place.

Gunslinger
12-03-2010, 10:43 PM
Good to hear, J.V. Tell your friends! Bring 'em out of "The Matrix" ;)

Barney Ross
12-12-2010, 11:46 PM
THAT, is a great read. :D Sounds like a perfectly clear explanation to me.
Barney