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View Full Version : Are the Pocket Corners of the Raiders film jacket rounded?



neutronbomb
10-23-2010, 01:40 PM
It's hard to imagine that the rounded pocket bottom corners are from actual 1980 Raiders production jackets.
Have you seen this one NB?

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/RaidersPocketCloseup.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/RaidersRoundPocket.jpg

- Mac

neutronbomb
10-23-2010, 01:40 PM
Hi Mac!

I think there's a bit of an illusion going on with that curve due to the jacket flapping open (to my eye), and the flap definitely looks sharper on the screen jacket.

neutronbomb
10-23-2010, 01:42 PM
Kurt, it certainly could be an illusion due to the movement of the leather, camera angle, etc. However I’ve just watched that scene (the pocket close-up shot) cycling slowly one frame at a time and, as the jacket sways back and forth (in slow motion), the bottom radius is remarkably consistent. In each frame the pocket retains the “rounded” look, at least to my eyes.

It’s possible a different jacket could have been used for the close-up, as this pocket doesn’t seem to match the pocket on the opposite side when it changes back to the long shot. Ford’s face isn’t seen in the close-up, so it could be a stand-in wearing a different jacket, possibly a pickup shot filmed later.

- Mac

neutronbomb
10-23-2010, 02:28 PM
Look closely, you can see the edge/pointy corner. It's pointed up a bit. An illusion similar to The Main Hero Jacket collar tip looking rounded.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/RaidersPocketCloseup.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/RaidersRoundPocket.jpg

front:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/th_Hawaii_pocketcorner13.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/?action=view&current=Hawaii_pocketcorner13.jpg)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner13.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/th_Hawaii_pocketcorner8.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/?action=view&current=Hawaii_pocketcorner8.jpg)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner8.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/th_Hawaii_pocketcorner7.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/?action=view&current=Hawaii_pocketcorner7.jpg)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner7.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/th_Hawaii_pocketcorner14.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/?action=view&current=Hawaii_pocketcorner14.jpg)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner14.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/th_Hawaii_pocketcorner6.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/?action=view&current=Hawaii_pocketcorner6.jpg)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner6.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner16.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/th_Hawaii_pocketcorner10.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/?action=view&current=Hawaii_pocketcorner10.jpg)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner10.jpg

back:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner15.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner12.jpg

Chewbacca Jones
10-23-2010, 03:24 PM
The front corner looks rounded to me in ever shot posted. Even the folds and all that considered, I see round. The back corner looks a bit squared, though.

neutronbomb
10-23-2010, 06:24 PM
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner17.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner20.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/th_Hawaii_pocketcorner20-1.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/?action=view&current=Hawaii_pocketcorner20-1.jpg)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner20-1.jpg

And here's how the illusion works. Find the seams and follow them to the pocket corner tip where the arrow is.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/th_Hawaii_pocketcorner6.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/?action=view&current=Hawaii_pocketcorner6.jpg)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Pocket%20Corners/Hawaii_pocketcorner6.jpg

Chewbacca Jones
10-23-2010, 09:01 PM
I see the "point" in the newer, lighter pics. The trouble with an optical illusion is, without the truth in hand, either could be the illusion. We've seen stuff like that before. What I'm wodering is, do we know these screen shots are all of the same jacket?

Mac
10-23-2010, 10:22 PM
An illusion similar to The Main Hero Jacket collar tip looking rounded.
As I’ve said, I’ll concede it could be an illusion, but I’m not so sure that’s what we have here.
If you’ll recall I was an early proponent of the round vs pointed collar being an “illusion” idea. Kt Templar posted photos of an example of the phenomena with a replica jacket, and I posted screen caps from a single continuous shot from the film demonstrating how the collar could go from pointed to round. IIRC it was at that point you jumped ship and joined the “illusion” camp.

I stated at the time that it was very easy to make a round collar look pointed by varying the angle or viewing plane, but much more difficult to make a pointed collar look round. I think the same principle applies here with the pocket radius. Rounded can easily be made to look sharper by varying the viewing angle but it’s more difficult (though not impossible) to make a tighter radius look larger. Pockets should be easier to pull and tug out of shape than collars (collars being double thick leather possibly with glue or tape sandwiched in between,) and pockets have a z-axis (you can put your hands inside!) That said, I really don’t see any folding in good quality extreme close-ups (as the jacket sways back and forth) and the pockets sure look rounded to me:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/RaidersClose-upPocket-1.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/RaidersClose-upPocket-2.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Jackets/RaidersClose-upPocket-3.jpg

Several of the photos you posted are from the long shots with Ford. The close-up shot doesn’t show a face, and surely you must admit at least the possibility that it may be a completely different jacket (from the long shots), possibly from a pickup shot and perhaps with a stand-in.

- Mac

Marauder
10-23-2010, 10:38 PM
Those shots above appear to be the same jacket by the details.

The last two photos show a more square pocket corner going to appear as a more rounded pocket corner simply by virtue of the corner of the jacket being bent towards the viiewer. It's a same principle as the collar 'illusion' cited.



edited for typos

Gunslinger
10-24-2010, 12:56 AM
Yeah, Mac, I'm with you on the collar illusion now as I was then. I even used that line of thought to tweak the collar points on my last Nowak, and to my eye they look dead-on. I've said MANY times re both hats and jackets that the focal length of lenses creates illusions, as do angles.

In this case I just rewatched the scene again - they definitely look squareish to me once you take pocket bulge out of the eqation - you can see they're square by watching the whole scene through. Also check out the Imam's scene - as we've found in other analyses this is almost certainly the same jacket - and the Imams pocket at that point is a nice tight arc - you can even see the pivot point where the stitching turns.