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neutronbomb
12-25-2015, 07:23 PM
KT will be glad to know I've now owned my first jacket made by Wested. I plan on doing a write up on this is in more detail, but a few observations since I've been wearing it for a few weeks.

1. This NH TOD jacket pattern is the overall cut and pattern and fit of the Raiders' jacket worn on film. If Wested wants to produce an accurate Raiders replica they should use the NH TOD pattern for cut and fit and make the minor adjustments to transform it into the Raiders main hero and imans jacket. Smaller yoke with offset sleeve seams, back panel flaps configuration at the bottom of the action back, smaller zipper, larger pockets, collar stand construction.

2. Ribby merino may not necessarily have been used for the raiders jackets. Dr. Scobie was incorrect in his identification of the striation marks coming from the skin wrinkles from Ribby merino skins.

3. The leather is as indymassilia described. Never felt a softer more luxurious leather in my life. Like running your hands through warm butter. Which immediately reminding me of what Debra described the leather of the first jacket she had made. Super soft. When I got this jacket it was new and the most smooth leather I've ever owned. Since wearing it around the clock and getting it wet and wearing it dry it has exploded with grain and texture and striations like seen on the raiders film jackets. Very cool.


Made by Wested with french, vegetable tanned, plonge, aniline lambskins provided by Indymasilia. For some background check out these two links:

http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/2397-Deluxe-Indiana-Jones-Temple-of-Doom-jacket-by-Wested

http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/2230-Return-to-Pankot-Palace!

JeffDJ
12-28-2015, 06:35 PM
Sounds awesome, neutronbomb! Looking forward to your more detailed write-up (which will hopefully include pix too!).

neutronbomb
12-30-2015, 03:13 AM
Teaser.....

If wishes were fishes we'd all have a fry. If horse turds were biscuits we'd eat 'til we die.

wish it were on the right side chest panel :storm:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/striations01_zpsmuvihu1i.jpg~original

Kt Templar
12-30-2015, 08:52 PM
:) glad you like it.

Your comment about changing every panel and it then becomes a Raiders jacket reminds me of a line in Only Fools and Horses a long running UK sit com. Trigger, a roadsweeper, comments he has had the same broom all for many years:

Trigger: And that's what I've done. Maintained it for 20 years. This old broom's had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in its time.

As for grain popping out with water, yes it sometimes does, grain is hidden and minimised in the tanning and stretching process, it sometimes returns. I believe the Professor... though not wanting to toot my own trumpet but his observation lifted the veil that had been hanging all these years. We know the characteristics we were looking for but never knew the reason. Ribby characteristic and merino type suddenly allowed several new makers a lead into finding the right type of leather.

Some of the established makers are a bit set in their ways, after all they have been trained to give the customer the smoothest and most consistent grain possible.

neutronbomb
12-30-2015, 09:16 PM
Sorry didn't understand any of your post. Possibly trying to be snide there, don't know. But, the leather used on film isn't Ribby merino.

Kt Templar
12-30-2015, 09:27 PM
Gosh, easily upset there.

Part 1: Changing patterns makes it a completely different thing. The Raiders hero jacket is not the TOD jacket. Full stop.

Part 2: Yes, the Raiders hero (Jacket seen in full sunlight in front of the flying Wing) it is merino or at least merino cross the evidence is there for everyone to see for themselves.

We will have to agree to differ on both counts.

I have seen and worn the NH TOD jacket, it had no obvious striations on it, unlike the raiders Hero. The closest I saw to that jackets leather was the washed lamb that Wested had at the time.

neutronbomb
12-31-2015, 01:08 AM
No. Just couldn't figure out your post.

1. Your wrong. Putting a smaller zipper or adding larger pockets is not changing patterns. "The Raiders hero jacket is not the TOD jacket." - what are you talking about. You need to learn to be more specific with your sentences. There were three Raiders Hero jackets. Are you talking about all three? WTF. The Raiders Prototype film jacket is the TOD main film jacket. The other two, main hero and Imam is the same pattern with aforementioned changes.

2. Your wrong. The Raiders Main hero jacket that exhibits the bubbles that form a line is not the skin wrinkles from merino skins that you promoted and that dr. scobie incorrectly identified the bubble lines as.

I am not talking about the NH TOD jacket leather. I'm talking about the prototype raiders jacket leather that was used in the TOD film as the main hero jacket along with the other two jackets used in raiders. I have already commented in the TOD thread that the NH TOD jacket leather was not the same.

Interesting that you now say the NH TOD jacket leather was the kind Peter had in his shop at the time when previously you said Peter stated he did not make that jacket. So which is it KT.

Kt Templar
12-31-2015, 02:31 AM
1. No I am not, you are talking about making the yoke smaller which means every panel on including the arms change. It's not like some magical 3D mesh that can move like elastic bands.

Your theories are your theories they are have not been proved, grainy VHS caps can't prove anything. The Bantu Wind is one jacket, must be the Concessionaires prototype, if the timeline from Nadoolman is right. I believe this is the jacket used in all the interior shots filmed in the UK. Therefore IMAN = Proto/BANTU = TEMPLE INTERIOR. Then there is the Hawaii and the Flying Wing. Plus the stunts, I do not agree that the stunts are the prototype. I believe that it isl ikely that the stunts are the TOD jackets, or copies thereof.

2) You are suddenly disregarding all the multiple striations on the front of the Flying Wing/Main Hero, not sure why. This has been proved by Kelso and others going to their leather vendors, asking for merino and now being able to match the ribby Flying wing jacket front.

Again, I take the word of a Doctor with sheep genetics as a specialty, with peer reviewed papers.... over any of our armchair pundits views any day.

There are 2 main jackets in TOD one with narrow very rippled sleeves and one with wider less rippled ones (the NH) both are used at the same time, in fact if you watch the final scene with the elephant it cuts from one to another.

I'm saying that the shrunk lamb closely approximates the NH TOD, I never said it originated from there.

neutronbomb
12-31-2015, 03:00 AM
Lol. :banghead: you've missed everything.

Tibor
12-31-2015, 03:02 PM
The Bantu Wind jacket is not the Imam jacket, totally different yoke. To my knowledge, the Bantu Wind jacket only appears in Raiders at the dock, next to the Bantu Wind. When did this become a debate? :(

neutronbomb
12-31-2015, 03:39 PM
Since KT decided to finally chime in 5 yrs later on the subject. In the prototype jacket thread in the jacket section I have outlined all the places in the raiders film where the prototype/Bantu wind/Tod main hero jacket is seen.

Tibor
12-31-2015, 04:20 PM
Very convincing... Nicely done (just don't like the larger yoke so I tend to ignore the prototype):)

Kt Templar
12-31-2015, 04:35 PM
Looking again, I have to agree the Bantu is not the Iman.

We cannot tell if the one used in filming is the same as the jacket he is wearing in the photo on the doc, there is just not enough information in the footage.

It has the large yoke and the small slit at the bottom of the jacket that the Stunt and ToDs appear to have.

http://i66.tinypic.com/aylker.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/344txlt.jpg

Indiego Jones
01-07-2016, 02:31 PM
Great exchange this last weeks about ToD and Raiders jackets similarities.
I'm catching up with all, right now (I was on a trip)

I hope not to bother, I'm a bit late, but I'd like to give my opinion on certain subjects.

The fact that Nowak and Peter offered to us accurate replicas of Raiders and ToD jackets, give the opportunity for the fans to fill many voids we had on the film jackets origins.

As many know, I worked directly on the patterns to replicate both styles, as accurate as possible to the original jackets.
Off course I've studied both makers offers, and find out WHAT I BELIEVE (note the large letters, it means is my opinion/deduction, not a fact) little modifications to the original patterns.
Nothing massive, but are there. Some when making sizings progressions, and some to improve fit.

After this little prologue, I dive into the thread discussion:



1. This NH TOD jacket pattern is the overall cut and pattern and fit of the Raiders' jacket worn on film. If Wested wants to produce an accurate Raiders replica they should use the NH TOD pattern for cut and fit and make the minor adjustments to transform it into the Raiders main hero and imans jacket. Smaller yoke with offset sleeve seams, back panel flaps configuration at the bottom of the action back, smaller zipper, larger pockets, collar stand construction.
Exactly what I've find out when making the ToD patterns.
After doing accurate Raiders patterns, I decided to start working on ToD's.
Dug out my Wested ToD NH replica.
Study began, and find out many lines and curves matching the Raiders ones.
Once finished, I had the ToD pattern....95% similar to the Raiders patterns!!! :o
The differences were on the little details, like pocket sizing, closing of the action pleats, collar construction, etc.



2. Ribby merino may not necessarily have been used for the raiders jackets. Dr. Scobie was incorrect in his identification of the striation marks coming from the skin wrinkles from Ribby merino skins.
All sheeps and lambs have ribs... 8)
Depending on the tan method, the ribs can be smoothen or enhanced.

Look at this MERINO skins.
Tanned to be smooth, with very little grain.
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/CUEROS/SAMPLES/oveja%20rustica%2001_zpsvc8gknw0.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/CUEROS/SAMPLES/oveja%20rustica%2001_zpsvc8gknw0.jpg.html)
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/CUEROS/SAMPLES/oveja%20rustica%2005_zpsz7l32hyx.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/CUEROS/SAMPLES/oveja%20rustica%2005_zpsz7l32hyx.jpg.html)
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/CUEROS/SAMPLES/oveja%20rustica%2004_zpsvhhjwdfl.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/CUEROS/SAMPLES/oveja%20rustica%2004_zpsvhhjwdfl.jpg.html)

IMO Dr. Scobie was correct.
Because I'm convinced the Raiders jackets were made with MERINO skins.
But maybe not as grainy as we think.

Cheers.-

neutronbomb
01-07-2016, 03:58 PM
Great post! Thank you for sharing what you found about the TOD pattern similarity to the Raiders main heros' pattern when you Deconstructed it. I spent so many hours studying the raiders film jacket that I knew as soon as I put on the jacket and look in the mirror.

Maybe I can change your mind about the Merino skins. I know I could if I sent you my jacket. Maybe someday when I visit Argentina I can show you in person. ???

Note that dr scobie identified the bubble lines as skin wrinkles from the merino breed including a picture which I showed in the film jacket leather thread with a photo of what it looks like in a jacket.

Like you said those bubble lines can come from other breeds of sheep other than merino. I believe I can show you with my forthcoming write up that is the case with the raiders film leather.

Indiego Jones
01-07-2016, 05:06 PM
Maybe I can change your mind about the Merino skins. I know I could if I sent you my jacket. Maybe someday when I visit Argentina I can show you in person. ???


Of course!!!!!
Anytime my friend! You are welcome!

So I can take you to enjoy "asado" with the best red wines! :toast:

neutronbomb
01-13-2016, 04:31 AM
Moving forward with this thread here's some background on the leather:

Made by Wested with french, vegetable tanned, plonge, aniline lambskins provided by Indymasilia. For more info check out these two links:

http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/2397-Deluxe-Indiana-Jones-Temple-of-Doom-jacket-by-Wested

http://www.fortuneandglory.org/threads/2230-Return-to-Pankot-Palace!

Here's some more clarification from Indymassilia:

Concerning the aniline /plongé leather :
-First these skins were vegetable tanning.
-These leather are the best leather skin for a old natural looking in time.The patina of time will make them unique and with a great beauty.
-The aniline/plongé is the treatment for the color -dip-dyed ,only for the most beautiful full grain leather skins with no imperfection.
-This process consist to dive the skins for coloring them in successives baths of aniline pigment inside vat.

At first Aniline is a oily /colorless substance to serve as basis of most of adjustment in creating leather colouring agents.

neutronbomb
01-13-2016, 01:55 PM
The first photo compare shows how well the jacket matches The Raiders Prototype Jacket as seen in Temple of Doom in terms of the leather texture, behavior, and drape. Knowing the leather is incredibly, super soft beyond the ability to describe adequately really helps to "see" the film jacket leather better. It's also very stretchy.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch1_zpsp3bv6w0c.png~original


This second photo shows the excellent color compare and variations with reddish and dark tones.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch2_zpsy6hrqnrl.png~original


This third photo compares the texture against the infamous Raiders Main Hero Jacket's striation bubbles across the chest/shoulder. In addition to the striation bubbles and overall texture match, check out the shoulder/chest area between the first photo and the film photo where the leather bends/folds/flows. Perfect.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch3_zpsaqjo11rz.png~original

Vs. the ribby merino used by Platon.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/vendors/bill%20kelso/billkelso_zpscx9wfof6.jpeg~original

And vs the ribby merino skin wrinkles of dr. scobie alongside a jacket showing what it looks like using leather with those skin wrinkles.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Shrunken%20Lamb/ribbycompare1_zps4417c2cf.jpg~original


Cheers :toast: to Indymassilia for finding this leather!
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/cheers_zpswwqwtrau.jpg~original

Indiego Jones
01-13-2016, 04:26 PM
I see...
Wow
Mind blowing

(side note: despite the color difference, looks a lot to the last batch of "washed lambskin" Wested offered. In terms of grain/looks)

1 doubt:
Do you think/believe that leather can develop the amount of grain in 30 years -or so- that Nowak saw on the screenused jacket he examined?
Because I see it too smooth. More like the actual leather on the ToD NH jacket, which have no excesive grain on it.
The jacket Tony had in hands (Hawaii Hero) was very grainy. He said that. And most probably same leather batch of the Raiders Main Hero.


On replicating the jackets, the only thing is, to achieve the accurate look, the jacket should go through a distressing process before shipping (to much time, and attention to the correct method...increase costs A LOT)
Or the orderer just waits for the grain to pop-out with regular wear.


In about 2 months I have a meeting with the tannery people. To make the 2016 lamb/sheep order.

I have to ask my lamb/sheep skins to be tanned as smooth as possible?
In order to have screen-accurate leather for Raiders and ToD jackets ? ? ?

Kt Templar
01-13-2016, 07:01 PM
Indiego, totally agree on the grain. We all know, even though some of us seem to not want to believe it. Leather can be smooth, smooth-plated, ribby, ribby that has been enzyme treated to pop the grain... I like to call it Cold-Scrote :). For a while, somewhere in the eighties the really heavy grain was popular, I've seen it once or twice, it's pretty nasty, US wings' Korean made jackets seem to hang around for a while.

Ribby structure is considered a fault, they breed it out, or iron the leather (plated/grain correct) to try and give the consumer what they think they want, super smooth leather with consistent grain. But, if you treat plated leather with water like we sometimes do.... all the grain eventually pops out. Bingo you get what all the A2 guys keep trying to get in their jackets... Character.

neutronbomb
01-13-2016, 08:02 PM
I see...
Wow
Mind blowing

(side note: despite the color difference, looks a lot to the last batch of "washed lambskin" Wested offered. In terms of grain/looks)

1 doubt:
Do you think/believe that leather can develop the amount of grain in 30 years -or so- that Nowak saw on the screenused jacket he examined?
Because I see it too smooth. More like the actual leather on the ToD NH jacket, which have no excesive grain on it.
The jacket Tony had in hands (Hawaii Hero) was very grainy. He said that. And most probably same leather batch of the Raiders Main Hero.

In the TOD jacket thread in the jacket section you can see the NH TOD jacket compared to the prototype (I'll do some more here) and can see the leather is much smoother and different than the prototype film jacket and the French Plonge jacket of this thread. I cannot emphasize enough how buttery soft and stretchy this leather is. People who touch it can't keep their hands off it.

Regarding Tony Nowak, I can only comment on what he directly told me. He said he believed and identified the leather he examined as shrunken lamb. I showed him the grain on the right shoulder/chest panel of the Raiders main hero where the striation bubbles are. The surrounding grain I referred to as fish scales and I asked him if the jacket he had to examine looked like that. He said yes.

As you know, I have owned many Raiders lambskin jackets of all different types and have spent an embarrassingly large amount of hours examining what can be seen on film. I started looking closely at this French Plonge leather when Indymassilia first posted about his jacket project and the skins he had purchased for it. I could see the skins Match very well to the Raiders film leather. When the opportunity came to buy it and it arrived I knew right away it was an exact match.

As you also know, skins will have a variation of grain which includes this French Plonge so it may not match in all the exact same places as the film jackets.

Would love to hear from the new owners of the other two jackets on what their experience is with their french Plonge jacket and what they think.

I have more photos to do comparisons against the film jackets' grain that I will work on getting posted up. This was just to start things off.

Indiego Jones
01-13-2016, 08:37 PM
In the TOD jacket thread in the jacket section you can see the NH TOD jacket compared to the prototype (I'll do some more here) and can see the leather is much smoother and different than the prototype film jacket and the French Plonge jacket of this thread. I cannot emphasize enough how buttery soft and stretchy this leather is. People who touch it can't keep their hands off it.

Regarding Tony Nowak, I can only comment on what he directly told me. He said he believed and identified the leather he examined as shrunken lamb. I showed him the grain on the right shoulder/chest panel of the Raiders main hero where the striation bubbles are. The surrounding grain I referred to as fish scales and I asked him if the jacket he had to examine looked like that. He said yes.

As you know, I have owned many Raiders lambskin jackets of all different types and have spent an embarrassingly large amount of hours examining what can be seen on film. I started looking closely at this French Plonge leather when Indymassilia first posted about his jacket project and the skins he had purchased for it. I could see the skins Match very well to the Raiders film leather. When the opportunity came to buy it and it arrived I knew right away it was an exact match.

As you know, skins will have a variation of grain which includes this French Plonge so it may not match in all the exact same places as the film jackets.

Would love to hear from the new owners of the other two jackets on what their experience is with their french Plonge jacket and what they think.

I have more photos to do comparisons against the film jackets' grain that I will work on getting posted up. This was just to start things off.
Ok, I understand now.
NH ToD jacket was a replica of the prototype Raiders jacket. Got it.
So, of course, different leather.


On the Nowak appreciation on the Hawaii jacket, if he said Shrunken Lamb, he meant grainy. Very.
I can't see that French plonge leather becoming that grainy, by just been stored.

In fact I remember perfectly, Tony stating that this SL batch matched exactly what he had in hands:

http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/DSCN2461_zpsm36oqid1.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/DSCN2461_zpsm36oqid1.jpg.html) http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/DSCN2457_zpsdwph4wwx.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/DSCN2457_zpsdwph4wwx.jpg.html)
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/DSCN2430_zpsvjprgjqf.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/DSCN2430_zpsvjprgjqf.jpg.html) http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/DSCN2429_zps2y6qvxql.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/DSCN2429_zps2y6qvxql.jpg.html) http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/DSCN2428_zpsvgqaiutp.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/DSCN2428_zpsvgqaiutp.jpg.html)
http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/DSCN2425_zpswxvnr9qo.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/DSCN2425_zpswxvnr9qo.jpg.html) http://i1357.photobucket.com/albums/q755/indiegojones/DSCN2423_zpsk35ndocv.jpg (http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/media/DSCN2423_zpsk35ndocv.jpg.html)

Don't get me wrong, I'm almost convinced about the smoothness.
But you know me...I have to question everything! ;D

neutronbomb
01-13-2016, 09:15 PM
Man, those are gorgeous jackets. Don't worry Diego, we'll examine it all thoroughly Indy_dead_horse

Tony's first batch SL leather were his very high quality replica for what he wanted to use while also capturing to the best of what he saw when he examined the jacket he had in his shop. IIRC they were chrome tanned by his tannery in Italy using lamb skins that I don't know where they were sourced. He believed he nailed it.

indymassilia
01-14-2016, 04:32 PM
Nice picture !:hail:

neutronbomb
01-14-2016, 10:35 PM
Nice leather you found :hail: ;D

Indiego Jones
01-15-2016, 03:04 PM
I don't know the tannery where indymassilia got his leather.

But here's a tannery in France with interesting plongé products.
I got a sample skin from them 3 years ago.

Look at this samples.
Of course, you can order in the color you need.


MAIN SECTION: http://www.hiriar.com/en/8-plonge

Samples I like:
http://www.hiriar.com/en/plonge/77-lamb-plonge.html

http://www.hiriar.com/en/plonge/62-lamb-egypt-ultra-light.html (I would love to work with this one)

http://www.hiriar.com/en/full-vegetable/66-vegetable-lamb-plonge.html


Too bad we can't import this products to Argentina.
Taxes are very expensive.-

neutronbomb
01-15-2016, 06:25 PM
Your right this one Lamb Egypt Ultra Light - very nice!

Some of the description words on the site: silky smooth, stretch leather

Great links Diego ban-llama

You didn't like The sample skin you got three years ago?

Indiego Jones
01-15-2016, 06:57 PM
You didn't like The sample skin you got three years ago?

I loved it!!!

But 50% plus to the price in taxes, made the deal impossible.

Beside that, in Argentina we used to have a "selective" Costum office...they choose what to release from custody, and what to make "disappear"... :-[

Too much risk on that trade.-

neutronbomb
01-15-2016, 07:03 PM
Do you still have that sample skin. Could you share a photo.

Indiego Jones
01-15-2016, 08:09 PM
Do you still have that sample skin. Could you share a photo.

The skin is at our tannery (Buenos Aires) since last year.
I've send it to them so they have a starting point to work with.
I'll get it back in march.

Here are the only pictures I've took of it.
It's wrong color, like greenish brown...if exists.

This is "Lamb Egypt Light" (http://www.hiriar.com/en/plonge/61-lamb-egypt-light.html)

Very stretchy, soft and supple. Very.
Not thin. About 9 - 10 mm.

PICTURES:
http://s1357.photobucket.com/user/indiegojones/library/CUEROS/HIRIAR%20-%20France

neutronbomb
01-15-2016, 10:34 PM
Diego?? Are you ready for more mind blowing ??? :o ??? :o

wait for it...

wait for it...

you should sit down for this..

put your coffee down..

seriously..put your coffee down

get some Indy_popcorn

ok..

are you ready..??? :D

no going back to ribby wrinkles :bs: :'( after this..can you handle it??

are you sure :hellno:

:D ok..well here it is anyway!

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch4_zps3tzsk8vk.png~original

Kt Templar
01-16-2016, 10:05 AM
Plonge is very, very soft.

Very.

Think of a thin fleece sweater, or the cleaning cloth you get with a pair of glasses.... that soft.

Looks kinda like that heavily degraded picture. But really isn't the leather you imagine it is.

Did I mention it's very soft. :)

neutronbomb
01-16-2016, 08:50 PM
I do know how KT loves those degraded photo compares and I hate to disappoint. Ah...I remember the good ole days when any hint of texture was "screen noise" ban-llama

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch6_zpskcwfpqnb.png~original


http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch5_zps9rmm3pjh.png~original

Indiego Jones
01-18-2016, 02:53 PM
wow ..... AMAZING!

I told you!
I would love to work with that stuff!

Only hope I have, is my local tannery can replicate something similar.

I'll have to wait until march.-

neutronbomb
01-18-2016, 04:39 PM
I'm glad you like. Yes, you did tell me so :)

I will get more up..degraded and not! I think you'll enjoy.

neutronbomb
01-19-2016, 01:17 AM
Texture Compare.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch7_zpsgv9eiwjs.png~original

Indiego Jones
01-19-2016, 02:38 PM
Ok. I can see it.

This plonge leather is 100% aniline tan method. Drummed.
That results in a soft, elastic and lightweight skin.

But it doesn't mean the raw skins used for the leather can't be merino.


I'll ask my tannery to replicate something as close as possible, for our season's lambskin order.
I hope they can do it.

THANKS FOR SHARING.-

neutronbomb
01-19-2016, 03:27 PM
No, I can't imagine any reason why merino couldn't be tanned with a similar method. Plus you have more control over getting merino rib marks to work with that mimic close enough the ROTLA Main Hero striations bubbles. I doubt the casual fan is going to care about the difference in look between New Zealand merino type looking skins and Egyptian skins tanned with the French Plonge method.

Indiego Jones
01-19-2016, 03:56 PM
Exactly.

Plonge tanning method can be done with different skins. Even calfskin.

The skins choosen, most often, for this tanning method are lambs/sheeps.
Because the finished product turns out softer, pliable.


The raw skins can come from different lamb breeds: Merino, Dorper, Rambouillet, Hampshire, Romney

And can come from different countries:
UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Egipt, Pakistan
Or like in my case, Patagonia Argentina.-


PS: Some info about choosing lamb breed for the best raw skins

From the standpoint of leather, the closer a sheepskin approaches hair sheep, the tighter and firmer the fiber network, and, therefore, the better the skin for producing leather. This is the case because the numerous fine wool fibers, as opposed to the lesser number of coarse fibers of the hair sheep, cause the skin to be more open and loose in texture.

neutronbomb
01-21-2016, 06:40 PM
matching in every way :o but what the hell..probably just degraded film noise mixed with glue and bubblegum.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch8_zps1rx9vflh.png~original

neutronbomb
01-21-2016, 07:33 PM
One member has informed me that they are unable to view the pics that I am posting. Is anyone else having this problem?

Ram Man
01-22-2016, 02:07 AM
I have no Issues in this regard. I see clearly and like what I see :crazy:

neutronbomb
01-23-2016, 06:10 PM
Indymassilia, can you help with the translation. Do they give the type of leather? This is on the ebay site you gave in your thread: http://www.ebay.fr/itm/BLUVAC02-BLOUSON-3-4-HOMME-CUIR-DE-VACHETTE-STYLE-INDY-MARRON-/221339044966?hash=item3388d5cc66

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch9_zpssbdls2yf.png~original
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/_57_zpsplmrq3au.jpg~original

indymassilia
01-25-2016, 11:04 AM
It's a for a sale of a leather jacket,cowhide leather,3/4 means it's a long back length jacket ,they wrote "style Indy",but i think it's just for publicity/ebay marketing..
Occitanna leather don't make leather skins,they are not a tannery,but they bought from french best tannery some stock time to time..
Hope it helps ;)..

They have a beautiful cowhide plonge brown chocolate color too enough big to make one Indy 44-46 jacket,but maybe the skin is a little to thick : 1,2mm-1,4mm.

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/V211P-PEAU-CUIR-DE-VACHETTE-PLONGE-BRUN-CHOCO-XXL-4M-/221214739758?hash=item33816d0d2e

Indiego Jones
01-25-2016, 01:38 PM
This is also PLONGE, with more grain.

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/A601P-PEAU-CUIR-DAGNEAU-PLONGE-BULLE-BRUN-CHOCO-XL/221321333293?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20140620091323%26meid%3D9ea5e52ce1484bbe91d e6e78ad623996%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D5%26 sd%3D221214739758

neutronbomb
01-25-2016, 09:07 PM
Maybe a Plonge Merino Diego?

indymassilia
01-26-2016, 01:35 PM
I have already order this batch of leather Diego talking,but have to return to them, too much tickness,less drape,it remember me the Wested "crispe lambskin"...a very nice batch but not to fit a Indy jacket and the brown was too much a brown reddish hue.

Indiego Jones
01-26-2016, 03:11 PM
NB, yes I think merino plonge can have the correct amount of grain.

We must remember that "plonge" is just a tan method.
Can be done on different skins, and with small recipe variations, that results in different leather finish.-

neutronbomb
01-26-2016, 06:04 PM
Yes of course Diego. Sorry for the confusion. I was commenting on what the skin looked like that you found, that Indymassilia commented on, thinking it looks very much like merino and with it being french plonge it may work for an indy jacket with all the merino rib marks to work with. However, Indymassilia says it's too thick with the wrong color.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/plongemerino_zpsskmco3rz.jpg~original


Here's a jacket with crispe (shrunken) french plonge lamb:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/lamb_crispeplonge_zpslnanmjw9.jpg~original


I think the raiders film jacket leather was very similar to the french plonge non-merino lambskin Indymassilia sourced for his jacket project that I've been doing the compares on. However, in vendors' cases such as yours where you want to be sure to duplicate the chest striations on the ROTLA Main Hero, it may make sense to go with merino to be sure you get the striation marks.

neutronbomb
01-26-2016, 06:09 PM
I contacted them and they said the jacket in hand is like soft, plonge lambskin, but it came with information saying it was vachette. So that's frustrating.


It's a for a sale of a leather jacket,cowhide leather,3/4 means it's a long back length jacket ,they wrote "style Indy",but i think it's just for publicity/ebay marketing..
Occitanna leather don't make leather skins,they are not a tannery,but they bought from french best tannery some stock time to time..
Hope it helps ;)..

They have a beautiful cowhide plonge brown chocolate color too enough big to make one Indy 44-46 jacket,but maybe the skin is a little to thick : 1,2mm-1,4mm.

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/V211P-PEAU-CUIR-DE-VACHETTE-PLONGE-BRUN-CHOCO-XXL-4M-/221214739758?hash=item33816d0d2e

neutronbomb
02-03-2016, 10:47 PM
Next up we'll start examining The Main Hero in detail:
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/th_TODprototypematch10_zpsajfexlmi.png (http://s615.photobucket.com/user/neutronbomb_photos/media/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch10_zpsajfexlmi.png.html)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/wested_TODplonge/TODprototypematch10_zpsajfexlmi.png~original

vs ribby merino
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/vendors/bill%20kelso/th_06_relichunter%20copy_zpsnlyusuvk.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/user/neutronbomb_photos/media/vendors/bill%20kelso/06_relichunter%20copy_zpsnlyusuvk.jpg.html)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/vendors/bill%20kelso/06_relichunter%20copy_zpsnlyusuvk.jpg~original

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20SCENES%20-%20TEMPLE/th_brjacket18%20copy_zpsp2lvqhuu.jpeg (http://s615.photobucket.com/user/neutronbomb_photos/media/ROTLA%20SCENES%20-%20TEMPLE/brjacket18%20copy_zpsp2lvqhuu.jpeg.html)http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20SCENES%20-%20TEMPLE/brjacket18%20copy_zpsp2lvqhuu.jpeg~original

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/vendors/bill%20kelso/th_13_relichunter%20copy_zpsepncny1w.jpg (http://s615.photobucket.com/user/neutronbomb_photos/media/vendors/bill%20kelso/13_relichunter%20copy_zpsepncny1w.jpg.html)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/vendors/bill%20kelso/13_relichunter%20copy_zpsepncny1w.jpg~original