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HENRY JONES JR.
07-01-2014, 06:00 PM
Wish the FEDORA would arrive soon, I'd like to post pictures ASAP!




No problem :) can't wait for the pics ;D

HENRY JONES JR.
07-03-2014, 10:10 PM
HERE'S THE INSIDE MARKINGS OF MY VINTAGE HERBERT JOHNSON!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0063_zpsdf43655e.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0063_zpsdf43655e.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0065_zps9af31c79.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0065_zps9af31c79.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0064_zps4a024759.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0064_zps4a024759.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0066_zps89baf38b.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0066_zps89baf38b.jpg.html)

HENRY JONES JR.
07-03-2014, 10:46 PM
I belive that my new vintage fedora is in fact a GREY CHINA CLIPPER HAT.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0072_zps23e669ed.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0072_zps23e669ed.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0071_zps5ae5016c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0071_zps5ae5016c.jpg.html)

The hat ribbon is bigger because, of course, when Lucasfilm decided on the hat, they made the ribbon thinner to make the hat appear taller. This is what it would look like out of the factory.

I took more photos. The hat, I believe, is the color of the hat Ford wore on the China Clipper. It's a kind of brownish grey. I will post comparison shots to brown and grey fedoras, and the inside tag telling it's actual color.
The felt is super floppy, and lightweight!

HENRY JONES JR.
07-03-2014, 11:08 PM
THIS GREY CHINA CLIPPER FEDORA WAS MADE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 1953-1971. (38 NEW BOND STREET which is written on the hat 3 times, was at that location from 1899-1971. In 1953, the hat's crest was changed from reading "King" to "Her Majesty the Queen". Queen Elizabeth II's coronation was June 2, 1953.)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0069_zps4e0ec853.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0069_zps4e0ec853.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0070_zpsb9d5a967.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0070_zpsb9d5a967.jpg.html)

HENRY JONES JR.
07-03-2014, 11:26 PM
HERE'S THE INSIDE TAG TELLING WHAT COLOR HJ CALLED THE COLOR OF THIS HAT.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg.html)

I DO, IN FACT, BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE TRUE COLOR OF THE CHINA CLIPPER FEDORA THAT HARRISON FORD WORE IN HIS SUIT. It is a brownish grey (thus lies the confusion for years if it was brown or grey....it's actually both!

Is a tag like this fairly common on older HJ fedoras?

The workmanship, and the quality of the curry felt is a dream! Very lightweight, very floppy, just the most wonderful felt I've ever...........felt. Just amazing! NOW I know what members were trying to let us know about the older HJ Curry felt!! It IS different. On the first page of this thread, I posted pictures of a current HJ model being sold out of Japan of all places, well, it, my Akubra Fed 4, The Todd's costume version, and the Christy's of London fedoras ALL have a somewhat heavier, and thicker felt than this fedora. I now get it. True Vintage fedoras are different.

Also, everyone is correct. The hat color does, in fact, look different under different lighting. You guys were right!

If anyone has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them, and supply more photos.

-HJJ

neutronbomb
07-03-2014, 11:41 PM
Yes you do. Listen dude. Do not send that hat to anyone for any reason. You'll never see it again. Seriously. This is a big deal. I'm also going to change the name of your thread.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Hat%20Pictures/HJJClipperCompare-wm_zps76730e54.jpg~original

HENRY JONES JR.
07-03-2014, 11:48 PM
Yes you do. Listen dude. Do not send that hat to anyone for any reason. You'll never see it again. Seriously. This is a big deal.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Hat%20Pictures/HJJClipperCompare-wm_zps76730e54.jpg~original

NEUTRONBOMB, I absolutely will listen to you. I have taken photos of this fedora next to grey fedoras, and a brown fedora so you can see that this HJ fedora is absolutely a brownish grey color. When I wear it indoors, it looks exactly like the color of the fedora as worn inside the China Clipper. Indoor light, and sunlight make the hat look different. Indoors, it looks more like a brown, outdoors in harsh sunlight, more like a brownish grey.

Seriously, I've never seen a color quite like this before.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 12:10 AM
HERE IS THE CHINA CLIPPER HAT NEXT TO A GREY AKUBRA FED 4. The Clipper fedora is on the Left. Indoor lighting. As you can see, it is a brownish grey.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0077_zps815950a9.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0077_zps815950a9.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0078_zpsfc4858c7.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0078_zpsfc4858c7.jpg.html)

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 12:40 AM
Instead of changing the name of this thread, could you please take out the GREY CLIPPER posts and photos and give IT it's own thread and name. A good new name would be something like "FOUND! GREY CHINA CLIPPER FEDORA!"

I think we should retain the name of this thread, so we can continue to discuss, and discover more information of markings of HERBERT JOHNSON, and further company infomation.

When you create the new thread, I've got more photos to post, like the fedora hat color against grey and brown fedoras. Indy_cheers

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 02:25 AM
HERE'S THE GREY CLIPPER FEDORA NEXT TO A BROWN FEDORA FOR COLOR COMPARISON.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0080_zps5b8c655b.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0080_zps5b8c655b.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0079_zps7cdd25e5.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0079_zps7cdd25e5.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0081_zps4e979968.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0081_zps4e979968.jpg.html)

FROM LEFT TO RIGHT: CHRISTY'S OF LONDON, HERBERT JOHNSON, AKUBRA FED 4

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 03:17 AM
THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE IN HARSH SUNLIGHT.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0075_zpsc2ef9c7e.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0075_zpsc2ef9c7e.jpg.html)

Outside, it appears more grey than brown. Inside, more brown than grey. :doh:

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0065_zps9af31c79.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0065_zps9af31c79.jpg.html)

The leather headband is one of the finest I have ever felt. It's really thin, but somehow, it adjusts to your head, and feels fantastic against your head. They just don't make 'em like that anymore. Ditto the hat itself. Now I know why the royals (and Indy) chose these hats. The leather band is soft, and not dried out.

I'm not sure why, but this Fedora is actually a size larger than I wear, but it fits fine...a tad loose, but it fits fine.

The Herbert Johnsons of today are just HJ in name alone. It doesn't have the quality of the older hats.

Mine could have been made as early as the Korean War. It could be 61 years old as of 2014.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 06:09 AM
THIS IS A CLOSE UP OF THE COLOR UNDER FLUORESCENT KITCHEN LIGHTS.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0083_zps12ed419c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0083_zps12ed419c.jpg.html)

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 06:15 AM
CLOSE UP OF THE RIBBON.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0084_zpsb57f7015.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0084_zpsb57f7015.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0086_zps0a9537a2.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0086_zps0a9537a2.jpg.html)

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 06:26 AM
AS YOU CAN TELL BY THE SHAPE, THE BLOCK THAT WAS USED WAS THE ORIGINAL BLOCK.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0075_zpsc2ef9c7e.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0075_zpsc2ef9c7e.jpg.html)

I've learned (I think from all of you) that the original block for the Poet stopped being used at some point. This still has the original.

I wish there was a way to reverse engineer the shape of the original block shape off an old Herbert Johnson Poet, and remake it again. Anyone clever enough to figure out how to do this?

This fedora has been crushed so many times, I thought it would have lost it's shape. Thankfully, it still pops back into it's learned shape fairly well.

djd
07-04-2014, 06:33 AM
Beautiful!
In my experience there aren't any modern hats that match up to the quality of genuine vintage items. I've a homburg and a trilby, both no newer than early 60s and both from German manufacturers. They both have felt finer, softer and smoother than any modern hat I've seen and that includes anything sold by Lock & Co who are THE London hatters. They really do not make them like they used to...

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 06:38 AM
Beautiful!
In my experience there aren't any modern hats that match up to the quality of genuine vintage items. I've a homburg and a trilby, both no newer than early 60s and both from German manufacturers. They both have felt finer, softer and smoother than any modern hat I've seen and that includes anything sold by Lock & Co who are THE London hatters. They really do not make them like they used to...

It really IS sad that for some reason, the older vintage hats really are done differently, and are better. It is true. I wonder why?

djd
07-04-2014, 07:30 AM
There just don't seem to be the craftsmen in the industry that there were. Hardly surprising I suppose when you consider how few people wear hats now compared to the 50s and earlier. People today don't know what a quality hat is.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 07:41 AM
There just don't seem to be the craftsmen in the industry that there were. Hardly surprising I suppose when you consider how few people wear hats now compared to the 50s and earlier. People today don't know what a quality hat is.

I agree. There are far fewer people who wear them now compared to the 30's. 40's and 50's where every man wore a hat, usually a fedora. After the 60's, it died out. The original craftsmen of the times died out. No real need to pass down the traditions if people don't really wear them anymore. Now it's a cool accessory. Wish it would come back into style. People looked neater, and dressier....more civilized than a backward baseball cap.

Thank God for the quality hat craftsmen that we still have. MUCH respect.

The Character
07-04-2014, 09:14 AM
You best bet on copying the shape off the block would be to:

1/ take front, back, l side, R side and top reference images
2/ Push out the bash to the unabashed (domed) shape.... I'd go as far as you can comfortably
3/ 3D scan the new shape which would give you a very accurate way to then produce a resin or aluminium block after a little cleanup CAD work
4/ replace the bash/shaping .. which should be easy as it will likely go back naturally to the shape its been for 60 years!

you need to find a company with a small hand scanner OR small bed but they are relatively easy to locate

Kazim
07-04-2014, 02:47 PM
This is huge. Amazing it took so long to be found. A bit surprised that HJ made these but must have made so few.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 04:27 PM
You best bet on copying the shape off the block would be to:

1/ take front, back, l side, R side and top reference images
2/ Push out the bash to the unabashed (domed) shape.... I'd go as far as you can comfortably
3/ 3D scan the new shape which would give you a very accurate way to then produce a resin or aluminium block after a little cleanup CAD work
4/ replace the bash/shaping .. which should be easy as it will likely go back naturally to the shape its been for 60 years!

you need to find a company with a small hand scanner OR small bed but they are relatively easy to locate

HOLY CRAP! I THINK YOU DID IT!! That truly may be how one could do it. A computer could also make larger copies for larger heads, or smaller versions for smaller heads. It's taking DNA from an Insect, and bringing back an extinct Dinosaur....well....kind of, ...you know what I mean. LOL.

I wonder why no gung ho hobbyest in the field hasn't done this already, and marketed it for us. INDY fans would be thrilled!!

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 04:42 PM
This is huge. Amazing it took so long to be found. A bit surprised that HJ made these but must have made so few.

These must be somewhat rare. But I couldn't be the only one that has one. There must be more out there. Perhaps, there are more out there, but none are owned by INDY fans, and wouldn't think of this color as an INDY hat, as the brown is usually associated with the character. Maybe it just took a while for a fan of our hobby to recognise what it really was. I just knew what to look for. There has got to be more out there.

I was looking for pictures of one on the internet, but other than replicas, I never did actually find a real one.

INDYGEAR.COM talks about it, but has never produced one, and has this to say about it;

(The Gray Clipper Fedora
Very little was known about the fedora worn by Harrison Ford in Raiders of the Lost Ark while on board the Pan Am Clipper and at the end of the film on the Washington steps. To some the hat appears gray and to others it appears a fawny tan. Richard Swales at Herbert Johnson stated that he did indeed make two different colored fedoras for Raiders, one brown and one gray. Although nobody can be truly certain of the exact color, one thing that seems certain is that it is a Herbert Johnson and bears the same unique block shape and characteristics as the brown, hero fedora. There appears to have been no distressing done by the costume department on this fedora as it appears to be in new condition in the film, worn with a suit as a dress hat, not an adventure hat.

To date, no behind-the-scenes footage of the dress fedora from Raiders of the Lost Ark is known to exist and only one personal photograph of Ford wearing the hat behind the scenes has surfaced. Still, one of the longest standing debates in the IndyGear community is over the exact color of this particular fedora worn in only two very short scenes in the film.

For years fans would debate whether the hat, dubbed the "Clipper" fedora, was gray or tan. There were many factors that fueled these debates. First, the filming of the original hat may or may not have included the use of camera filters and multiple lighting sources, both natural and synthetic. The film is then processed in a lab with chemicals, but is still the most pure source for color. Another factor that came in to play was how the movie was being viewed, which could affect color perception. For example, was the movie being screened on television or computer monitor? Both are individually color calibrated making the odds that everyone was seeing the same color incredibly slim. As with the original film stock, the same would then apply to any photograph of the hat itself since chemicals are used to process the film independently, leaving almost no two photos alike from different sources. These are only a few of the talking points of many debates about the Clipper fedora.

To quote Winston Churchill, "It was a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma," and this went on for years. Numerous color charts, several different tan and gray scale sight interpretation charts, theories, best guesses, explanations, determination and segregation...all over the color of this hat.

Mr. Swales always claimed he made a gray fedora for Raiders, but fans began to notice discrepancies in his statements regarding a gray hat, most likely due to the length of time that had passed since hats for the film were purchased. Then, in 2007, confirmation of the color of the Clipper fedora was thankfully corroborated by three key sources: Raiders Costume Designer, Deborah Nadoolman, Assistant Costume Designer, Kelly Kimball, and Steven Spielberg himself. The hat was indeed a shade of gray, and although the location of the hat itself is still not known, the long debate over the color of the hat at IndyGear's Club Obi Wan had finally come to a conclusion. Stock in Mr. Swales memory suddenly went up. All three sources could recall the color of a costume piece from a production they had worked on over 25 years ago. This goes to show that even though the Clipper fedora was to have less than a minute of screen time, it was taken very seriously by those involved in the production. )


IF, as the IndyGear.com thread says, "longest standing debates in the IndyGear community is over the exact color of this particular fedora worn in only two very short scenes in the film" has been solved by us on THIS website, then we were the first to do it, and produce one...AND, we were the first to know with certainty what the true color really is. WE have the proof!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg.html)

djd
07-04-2014, 06:06 PM
Interesting on the felt colour....

This is my vintage trilby made by a company called Non Plus Ultra. It seems to be German from the other marks inside the sweat band. Probably early 1960s or late 50s. Pictured alongside my fed IV. Same felt as the HJ?
http://i57.tinypic.com/1zyu1af.jpg

neutronbomb
07-04-2014, 06:15 PM
Yes HJJ. Really fantastic job on your part and thank you for sharing it with us :toast:

Regarding the COW write up. I don't know who's responsible for writing it, but it reads like Patterson/Todd Hayes has his fingerprints on it. The part about Kelly Kimball, Deborah, and Steven Spielberg all confirming it, sounds much like Patterson's MO. Another work of fiction like their jacket writeups. Definitely not the place to go for actual info as it has a history of being run like their own personal fantasy game. Incredible that people stomached it for so many years.

A great question goes back to Swales. Did the grey fedora production used come from a vintage model like yours.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 06:26 PM
Yes HJJ. Really fantastic job on your part and thank you for sharing it with us :toast:

Regarding the COW write up. I don't know who's responsible for writing it, but it reads like Patterson/Todd Hayes has his fingerprints on it. The part about Kelly Kimball, Deborah, and Steven Spielberg all confirming it, sounds much like Patterson's MO. Another work of fiction like their jacket writeups. Definitely not the place to go for actual info as it has a history of being run like their own personal fantasy game. Incredible that people stomached it for so many years.

A great question goes back to Swales. Did the grey fedora production used come from a vintage model like yours.

If they used a vintage model, they would have had to be lucky enough to find one in Harrison's exact size, and others like it for the henchmen in Cairo too. If I were a betting man, I'd say they had them made for the production.

I'm not familiar with COW. They wanted me to join there when I was joining here. For whatever reason, I joined here and not there. They kept sending me countless emails trying to get me to join. From what I've heard about them, I'm glad I came here.

At this time, they have no idea that this hat exists.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 06:36 PM
Interesting on the felt colour....

This is my vintage trilby made by a company called Non Plus Ultra. It seems to be German from the other marks inside the sweat band. Probably early 1960s or late 50s. Pictured alongside my fed IV. Same felt as the HJ?
http://i57.tinypic.com/1zyu1af.jpg

To be sure if it's the same color, I'm guessing we'd have to find out if they sourced the Cury felt from the same supplier. We now know the Fed 4 isn't the right color.

You know, if that inside tag wasn't in my clipper fedora, we STILL wouldn't have know what the exact color was called.

Does anyone know if that tag is in most Vintage HJ fedoras, or did I just get lucky?

Neutronbomb, does your vintage HJ have a paper tag like mine with the crest on it, and the size and color name?

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 07:22 PM
2 QUESTIONS FOR OUR MEMBERS.

1. IS THIS TYPE OF TAG FOUND IN OTHER VINTAGE HERBERT JOHNSON HATS, OR DID I JUST SOMEHOW GET LUCKY THAT IT'S STILL WITH THE HAT (AFTER ALL, IT'S ONLY PAPER) (also, what you don't see are what could be a catalog number, or something stamped on the top of the tag. You can't see it, as it's hidden under the satin lining in the photo. Interesting.......Perhaps the color name was put on the tag as it was something out of the ordinary.)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg.html)

2. ABOUT WHAT TIME DID THE ORIGINAL HAT BLOCK FOR THE INDY HAT STOP BEING USED? IT WAS USED FOR THE FIRST RAIDERS FILM, THEN VANISHED. DID IT VANISH BETWEEN 81 AND 84?

neutronbomb
07-04-2014, 07:32 PM
No. I posted photos of the remnants of what it had in the other thread.

The thing is would the hat bodies be exactly the same in 1980ish as they were in the 50s? Same color, die job, exact same production, etc. if so, I'd love to see some in that color.

So far yours and DJDs from the 50s are the ones I see that have that color. It'd be nice to pinpoint the timeframe that particular felt was in production.

Also, Maybe DJDs has info or tags in his fedora that give more info about it.

Regarding the hat block. We don't know when the hat production used was blocked. It's fan speculation and theory that it was 1980ish likely based on info Mac has posted in the ribbon discussion thread regarding Swales.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 07:40 PM
No. I posted photos of the remnants of what it had in the other thread.

The thing is would the hat bodies be exactly the same in 1980ish as they were in the 50s? Same color, die job, exact same production, etc. if so, I'd love to see some in that color.

So far yours and DJDs from the 50s are the ones I see that have that color. It'd be nice to pinpoint the timeframe that particular felt was in production.

Also, Maybe DJDs has info or tags in his fedora that give more info about it.

Regarding the hat block. We don't know when the hat production used was blocked. It's fan speculation and theory that it was 1980ish likely based on info Mac has posted in the ribbon discussion thread regarding Swales.

Thank you so much for the information neutronbomb. I learn so much from being on here. I wonder if my hat has any further markings I haven't found.

neutronbomb
07-04-2014, 07:46 PM
You'll have to take your lining out. Some of our vendors use double sided scotch tape to hold it in place. You can use that method when you put the lining back in if you need to. It looks like yours was maybe stitched in so maybe you don't want to mess with its "originality".

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 07:57 PM
You'll have to take your lining out. Some of our vendors use double sided scotch tape to hold it in place. You can use that method when you put the lining back in if you need to. It looks like yours was maybe stitched in so maybe you don't want to mess with its "originality".

Good to know. Mine was stiched in, and I don't want to mess with it. There's really nothing to gain from doing it. We have all the real information we need without doing so.

Such few comments from members on this thread.

It's been viewed a lot since posting yesterday. It's the top thing that pops up when I was searching GREY CHINA CLIPPER FEDORA online. Other sites show up, but your site was first when I looked last time.

Gunslinger
07-04-2014, 08:57 PM
That's really awesome mate - congrats. Neutronbomb that sweatband has to be familiar to you! ;) yours also USED to have an identically styled sticker. It was old school - paper label held on with adhesive.

Beautiful, beautiful sweatband on this era of hat. Supple, sublime stuff to the touch. Be careful though, as the stitching that holds he sweat itself to its beading is VERY fragile. I had to renew every stitch of the one that NB has by hand as it disintegrated when removing to reblock.

Very interesting re the colour. Your images and descriptions match perfectly one I had, but it was labelled not as "granite", but "Smoke"... Weird. It could be as mine -IIRC was marketed as Brooks Brothers by Herbert Johnson or something like that. So a different name for the same colored felt?

What size is it?

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 09:18 PM
GUNSLINGER!! THANKS for commenting! I appreciate it very much!

The hat's size is 7 1/4. Granite could be a slightly different color combination,or variation, or like you said, a different name for making it for a different company. Smoke could be Brooks Brothers own name for the hat in a catalog. Wish we knew. At least we now know for certain that herbet johnson's in house name was GRANITE. The ribbon is quite nice, but there are spots that are disintegrating on it. It luckily has few weak spots, but the worst is right smack in the middle of the hat's ribbon when you look at it straight on. Sad really. The felt is absolutely mint. Not a flaw or moth bite anywhere on it. It's mint.

Thankfully, this hat is in our hands to research and discover things, and not in a competitors hands, like COW.

Any comments or questions are very welcome, and encouraged by everyone.






That's really awesome mate - congrats. Neutronbomb that sweatband has to be familiar to you! ;) yours also USED to have an identically styled sticker. It was old school - paper label held on with adhesive.

Beautiful, beautiful sweatband on this era of hat. Supple, sublime stuff to the touch. Be careful though, as the stitching that holds he sweat itself to its beading is VERY fragile. I had to renew every stitch of the one that NB has by hand as it disintegrated when removing to reblock.

Very interesting re the colour. Your images and descriptions match perfectly one I had, but it was labelled not as "granite", but "Smoke"... Weird. It could be as mine -IIRC was marketed as Brooks Brothers by Herbert Johnson or something like that. So a different name for the same colored felt?

What size is it?

crismans
07-04-2014, 10:28 PM
Really enjoying this thread! HJJ that is truly a beautiful hat you had. I can certainly see the color of the seaplane hat.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-04-2014, 11:35 PM
Really enjoying this thread! HJJ that is truly a beautiful hat you had. I can certainly see the color of the seaplane hat.

Thank you sir!

As an Indy Fan, I'm thrilled to have this hat. I too can't believe it took so long for one to be found by the community of Indy fans.

To be honest, I figured that someone on this site most likely had one, I was particularly interested in the paper tag that had the size with the name of the color Herbert Johnson used for the color. I thought it would be a rare item to still be with the hat, (as it's just a piece of paper), and might be missing from other grey hats. I thought this would prove what the actual color really was. I thought it, and only it, would be the smoking gun....I didn't really even think the poet fedora from Herbert Johnson in this color was that all hard to find. I'm finding out only now how rare this hat, color, and tag color really is.

I wanted to end the age old question as to what the actual color was on that beautiful hat. Thank goodness, it looks like we did!

This website is such a blessing. Everyone is very nice and helpful to me. I originally joined hoping someone could tell me what the Herbert Johnson markings in my hat meant, and what year it was. That thread is still there. Now I own about 9 hats, and two Indy jackets and two satchels etc. because of this site. LOL!

We did it! We solved a 33 year old riddle.

I've learned so much from all of you, as all of you as a group have so much knowledge.

Thanks everyone for being so willing to share!

-HJJ

neutronbomb
07-04-2014, 11:49 PM
Yep. It all starts with a, I just have a quick question....???

HENRY JONES JR.
07-05-2014, 12:10 AM
Dude, I love your website!



Yep. It all starts with a, I just have a quick question....???

neutronbomb
07-05-2014, 04:08 AM
Thank you Indy_cheers

I don't really think of it that way. I still think of it as our website as that was its original inception and start and I still adhere to its founding principles as much as I can. One day I just somehow ended up with the keys ??? It's really whatever we want to make of it though.

It's like 4 years later and I still remember when cows "knower of all things" said F&G wouldn't last a year ban-llama

HENRY JONES JR.
07-05-2014, 04:18 AM
They sound like fools. Glad I didn't know them.


Thank you Indy_cheers

I don't really think of it that way. I still think of it as our website as that was its original inception and start and I still adhere to its founding principles as much as I can. One day I just somehow ended up with the keys ??? It's really whatever we want to make of it though.

It's like 4 years later and I still remember when cows "knower of all things" said F&G wouldn't last a year ban-llama

RCSignals
07-05-2014, 07:17 PM
The colour of your hat is what I have always believed the movie hat to me. I never saw the greys of the repro hats in the movie, with the exception of CS

John Penman as I recall has or had felt in a very similar colour to your Granite.

Louisianna James
07-06-2014, 08:00 PM
HERE'S THE INSIDE MARKINGS OF MY VINTAGE HERBERT JOHNSON!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0063_zpsdf43655e.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0063_zpsdf43655e.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0065_zps9af31c79.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0065_zps9af31c79.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0064_zps4a024759.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0064_zps4a024759.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0066_zps89baf38b.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0066_zps89baf38b.jpg.html)

Awesome! :o

Weston
07-06-2014, 09:16 PM
Superb find! Take care of that one!

Ram Man
07-06-2014, 09:33 PM
Awesome find HJJ. IMO that is the closest if not the exact color of what we always suspected and saw on screen. Very cool thread :goodjob:

HENRY JONES JR.
07-07-2014, 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by RCSignals

(HJJ, what is the colour of the ribbon on your hat? Is the original colour Black? You may have to peak at the back (hat) side of the ribbon to tell. The outside could have faded, and even a black ribbon could fade to a shade of brown)

Great question. The ribbon is indeed black. However, it's wider than what was used in the film, so it could have been replaced by a different colored ribbon I suppose, but the ribbon on my fedora is original to the hat.





Originally Posted by neutronbomb

(It was also hand written in so we may not know for sure exactly when/where that designation was added. Maybe HJJ can shed light on how much he had to undo the hat to see the tag.)


Thankfully, I didn't have to take the satin lining out to see it. It's a piece of paper that seems to be, I guess somehow glued onto the felt itself. It's on the reverse side of where the ribbon bow is, and when you peel back the leather headband, the bottom part of the tag can be seen. The liner is sewed in, but it can be lifted just enough to show the hat size, crest and granite writing on it. The liner sewing is sewed right through the paper tag, so lifting it higher to read the letters (or numbers) makes it hard to do without taking out the stitching. Upon further examination, it appears to possibly written by the same colored pen (blue). It may be possible to read whatever is there, but it would be hard without removing the stitching. Also, as Gunslinger told me, the stitching to the leather headband is done by a very fragile thread, and it tends to come appart. Well, it is just barely starting to at the back of the hat (everything else is secure), so I don't want to damage it any further, so if the information written on the top of the paper is essential to us knowing about it, I'll figure out how to read it.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-07-2014, 12:48 AM
LOUISIANNA JAMES, WESTON, & RAM MAN, Thanks for the kind words! If you have any questions at all, please, ask away! Indy_cheers

indydude18
07-07-2014, 05:12 PM
Great find HJJ! I'll post some pics of my HJ in "Smoke" to compare the colors.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-07-2014, 05:40 PM
Great find HJJ! I'll post some pics of my HJ in "Smoke" to compare the colors.

I think we'd all love to see that!

indydude18
07-08-2014, 09:54 PM
PIC HEAVY! Okay, here we go. This hat is also from the New Bond Street address and is in the "Smoke" color. In my opinion, this color is closest to the one used by both HF on the Washington steps/Clipper plane and the "Nazi agent" in Cairo. Gunslinger, is this close to your old Clipper?

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9802_zps11be5982.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9802_zps11be5982.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9799_zps186a5505.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9799_zps186a5505.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9797_zpsc05fffd9.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9797_zpsc05fffd9.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9805_zpsd02c61cc.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9805_zpsd02c61cc.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9804_zpsc871daf6.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9804_zpsc871daf6.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9806_zpsda02a27b.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9806_zpsda02a27b.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/_578_zpsfdfbde5b.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/_578_zpsfdfbde5b.jpg.html)

I think this color best matches the fedora which the "Cairo Nazi" guy wears. Take a closer look at the following two pictures. I think the Clipper hat is darker than most fans realize.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/hat_other7_zps89491021.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/hat_other7_zps89491021.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/GrayBrownHats_zpsd8d0140e.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/GrayBrownHats_zpsd8d0140e.jpg.html)

HENRY JONES JR.
07-08-2014, 11:54 PM
PIC HEAVY! Okay, here we go. This hat is also from the New Bond Street address and is in the "Smoke" color. In my opinion, this color is closest to the one used by both HF on the Washington steps/Clipper plane and the "Nazi agent" in Cairo. Gunslinger, is this close to your old Clipper?

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9802_zps11be5982.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9802_zps11be5982.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0068_zps9d1abf77.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0068_zps9d1abf77.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9799_zps186a5505.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9799_zps186a5505.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0070_zpsb9d5a967.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0070_zpsb9d5a967.jpg.html)


http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/_578_zpsfdfbde5b.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/_578_zpsfdfbde5b.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg.html)

I think this color best matches the fedora which the "Cairo Nazi" guy wears. Take a closer look at the following two pictures. I think the Clipper hat is darker than most fans realize.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/hat_other7_zps89491021.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/hat_other7_zps89491021.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/GrayBrownHats_zpsd8d0140e.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/GrayBrownHats_zpsd8d0140e.jpg.html)

Thank you for the photos. Beautiful hat. I still think the granite is the color though.To my eyes, smoke is just a bit too dark, It really doesn't have the brown / grey color the way granite does. Just my two cents.

indydude18
07-09-2014, 12:00 AM
HJJ, I have another Herbert Johnson in Granite in my garage somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up and snap some photos. I think it has the same sweatband as yours, but I think it's a rabbit/beaver blend.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-09-2014, 02:24 AM
HJJ, I have another Herbert Johnson in Granite in my garage somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up and snap some photos. I think it has the same sweatband as yours, but I think it's a rabbit/beaver blend.

Cool! could you do what I did and set them side by side, and brim over brim close up? That would be interesting!

indydude18
07-09-2014, 06:08 AM
HJJ, found the hat! Will try to take some photos tomorrow to show the difference.

I've also color corrected one of the photos to more accurately show the true color. It's not as dark as you think dude. Look again at Indy's hat at the Washington steps when Marion "flicks" the hat. It's a dark hat man. I'll try to take some outdoor shots in the sun to show you what I mean.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9802_zps601cfe8a.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9802_zps601cfe8a.jpg.html)
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20Hat%20Pictures/hat_greyclipper1.jpg

RCSignals
07-09-2014, 09:11 AM
I would say Indy's travel hat is definitely the granite. There may have been a 'smoke' hat in Raiders, but the travel hat is not 'smoke'

Gunslinger
07-09-2014, 11:48 AM
PIC HEAVY! Okay, here we go. This hat is also from the New Bond Street address and is in the "Smoke" color. In my opinion, this color is closest to the one used by both HF on the Washington steps/Clipper plane and the "Nazi agent" in Cairo. Gunslinger, is this close to your old Clipper?

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9797_zpsc05fffd9.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9797_zpsc05fffd9.jpg.html)

Those photos are skewing much darker than my memory of what my "Smoke" HJ was. Yet another example of how tough it can be to capture the real tone of these older HJ's. Plus for all we know, Smoke could have changed at some stage.

The Smoke that I had (which for some reason I think was dated from the 50s or 60s) was very much brownish in certain light as much as it was greyish in certain light. The impression was NOT of a "dark" hat like I'm seeing in this thread. It was much more like the "granite". Ugh, Everything is always such a headache!

I think it's going to be a very tough task to work out which is "correct".

Gunslinger
07-09-2014, 11:58 AM
Actually, would you mind showing each hat in full daylight with the colour board? I'm curious to see how much the light will skew the lightness.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-09-2014, 04:50 PM
I would say Indy's travel hat is definitely the granite. There may have been a 'smoke' hat in Raiders, but the travel hat is not 'smoke'


Those photos are skewing much darker than my memory of what my "Smoke" HJ was. Yet another example of how tough it can be to capture the real tone of these older HJ's. Plus for all we know, Smoke could have changed at some stage.

The Smoke that I had (which for some reason I think was dated from the 50s or 60s) was very much brownish in certain light as much as it was greyish in certain light. The impression was NOT of a "dark" hat like I'm seeing in this thread. It was much more like the "granite". Ugh, Everything is always such a headache!

I think it's going to be a very tough task to work out which is "correct".

I truly believe that Indys travel hat was granite also. My hat inside (like in a plane, or at night, like in San Fran) also make it look like what is seen on film. Indside my home during the day, without light, it looks dark enough. Its' both the perfect shade of brown and grey.

Indy was given a unique hat, because he's...INDY. It sets him appart. I think other hats like the henchmen may or may not be a slightly different color. Not sure on that, but personally I'm certain that his true hat color is granite.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-10-2014, 02:30 AM
MY VINTAGE HAT STAND FOR MY HJ GREY CLIPPER FEDORA!

THIS VINTAGE HAT STAND WAS FOR AN OLD STORE DISPLAY.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0090_zps879fc41f.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0090_zps879fc41f.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0091_zpsa1b62e2c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0091_zpsa1b62e2c.jpg.html)

HENRY JONES JR.
07-10-2014, 02:38 AM
I bought the vintage hat stand at a local antique store today. I saw it, and another item I wanted on Sunday. I didn't have enough money on me, as I was only looking for items. I returned Monday, but they are closed on Monday. On Tuesday, I had a double hernia surgery, and couldn't drive anywhere. I just had to rest. Today, I went back, and bought the items I wanted.

Mac
07-10-2014, 12:12 PM
AS YOU CAN TELL BY THE SHAPE, THE BLOCK THAT WAS USED WAS THE ORIGINAL BLOCK.

I've learned (I think from all of you) that the original block for the Poet stopped being used at some point. This still has the original.

I wish there was a way to reverse engineer the shape of the original block shape off an old Herbert Johnson Poet, and remake it again. Anyone clever enough to figure out how to do this?

This fedora has been crushed so many times, I thought it would have lost it's shape. Thankfully, it still pops back into it's learned shape fairly well.

Could we see some shots of the hat in the open crown state with the creases popped out?

Nice, level front, side and oblique views, would be fantastic, HJJ! Not taken too close though, as that introduces distortion.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-10-2014, 05:26 PM
Could we see some shots of the hat in the open crown state with the creases popped out?

Nice, level front, side and oblique views, would be fantastic, HJJ! Not taken too close though, as that introduces distortion.

Do you mean make it look like that one henchmen who had the bashes pushed out, where the pinch and bashes are gone, and it's just rounded? If you answer, "Yes", then, yes, I'd be glad to do that for you.

Mac
07-10-2014, 06:41 PM
Do you mean make it look like that one henchmen who had the bashes pushed out, where the pinch and bashes are gone, and it's just rounded? If you answer, "Yes", then, yes, I'd be glad to do that for you.

Yes, that would be perfect, although the big Nazi henchman’s hat is not completely open crown. It has a very slight center dent that can’t be seen very well from lower angles or when his head is not tilted down, particularly when viewed from the front. The center dent is also lower and more prominent in some scenes than in others where it is almost imperceptible.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Hats/BigNaziAgentGrayHat_zps1167c4de.jpg~original


This would be open crown, with all the creases fully punched out:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/Mac0/Hats/OpenCrownFrontampSide_zps7dc6f1d5.jpg~original


If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, HJJ, it would be great to see both; a shot of the front and side (and maybe a ¾ view) in the full open crown state, and also a shot or two with a very slight center dent – like the big Nazi agent.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-10-2014, 09:45 PM
Alright Mac, here are the photos you reqested, however, I'm afraid you may be disappointed at the actual results.

The hat has been crushed so many times over the years that in order for it to look smooth, the felt would have to be reblocked. I'll never do that of course, as I will never get rid of it's original shape.

Sorry, but I did the best I could do. Here they are.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0092_zps23d1c28c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0092_zps23d1c28c.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0093_zpsd8d0bf0f.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0093_zpsd8d0bf0f.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0094_zpsb3a05a46.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0094_zpsb3a05a46.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0095_zps5b1f4615.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0095_zps5b1f4615.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0096_zps5f8f9396.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0096_zps5f8f9396.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0097_zpsd2feca28.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0097_zpsd2feca28.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0098_zpsdd53a5a8.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0098_zpsdd53a5a8.jpg.html)

Mac
07-10-2014, 10:44 PM
Not disappointed at all HJJ, thanks for the pics. Of course the creases won’t smooth out completely, but we can get a good sense of what the block shape was with these shots, even though the felt probably tapered a bit over the years.

This is useful data for gear heads. Thanks again! :)

indydude18
07-11-2014, 09:39 PM
I'll be posting a couple of hats to help compare some of the "grey/gray" colors that Herbert Johnson has released throughout the years. I personally am still convinced that "Smoke" was used for at least 1 "Clipper" fedora in the film. Here we go:

#1. Herbert Johnson in "Granite" - 38 New Bond Street

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9808_zpsd02c7a93.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9808_zpsd02c7a93.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9813_zpsc9004546.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9813_zpsc9004546.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9814_zps3ba7c89e.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9814_zps3ba7c89e.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9816_zpsf2a0c4b9.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9816_zpsf2a0c4b9.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9815_zpsdea42941.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9815_zpsdea42941.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

#2 Herbert Johnson Poet in "Steel" - 38 New Bond Street

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9818_zps571403d2.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9818_zps571403d2.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9822_zpseb782500.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9822_zpseb782500.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9823_zps0b37652a.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9823_zps0b37652a.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9824_zps52767321.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9824_zps52767321.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9826_zps9031ce29.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9826_zps9031ce29.jpg.html)

indydude18
07-11-2014, 09:45 PM
#3. Herbert Johnson in Unknown Grey - 13 Old Burlington Street

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9827_zps01b14370.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9827_zps01b14370.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9833_zpse8088fcb.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9833_zpse8088fcb.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9831_zps60a0651f.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9831_zps60a0651f.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

#4. Herbert Johnson in "Grey No.2" - 13 Old Burlington Street

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9835_zpscd5c10c4.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9835_zpscd5c10c4.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9840_zpsf7afea34.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9840_zpsf7afea34.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9841_zpse5d2c12c.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9841_zpse5d2c12c.jpg.html)http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9839_zps307edd06.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9839_zps307edd06.jpg.html)

indydude18
07-11-2014, 09:52 PM
#5. Brooks Brothers in "Smoke". Yes, I know this is not an Herbert Johnson, but Brooks Brothers never actually produced their own hats, so this hat has a 50/50 chance of either being from Herbert Johnson (more likely) or Locke & Co (less likely).

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9842_zps05674e39.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9842_zps05674e39.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9848_zps6804d160.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9848_zps6804d160.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9846_zps72e043ea.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9846_zps72e043ea.jpg.html)

- - - Updated - - -

Finally, here are the shots that Gunslinger asked for. Both Granite and Smoke in direct sunlight.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9853_zpsb9b592a1.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9853_zpsb9b592a1.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9855_zpsee50415c.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9855_zpsee50415c.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9852_zps17c001e7.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9852_zps17c001e7.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9850_zpsab674b85.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9850_zpsab674b85.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9860_zpsccb91dfb.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9860_zpsccb91dfb.jpg.html)
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k530/indydude18/IMG_9861_zpsd8b10f70.jpg (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/indydude18/media/IMG_9861_zpsd8b10f70.jpg.html)

Gunslinger
07-12-2014, 07:06 AM
Sorry, which of the two outside is the smoke? The one with the black ribbon seems to be doing a lot of shifting in warmish hues.

Were these shots taken with a polarising filter or straight-up?

indydude18
07-12-2014, 05:31 PM
Sorry, which of the two outside is the smoke? The one with the black ribbon seems to be doing a lot of shifting in warmish hues.

Were these shots taken with a polarising filter or straight-up?

Gunslinger, the Smoke is the darker of the two hats outside in sunlight. And the photos are straight-up, no polarizing filter used. I can snap some shots on Monday with the filter on. Think it's messing with the color?

Gunslinger
07-13-2014, 05:29 PM
It could be - but you are the best person to say.

I was just thinking it would be an interesting experiment vs the film.

Can't get my head around why all shots of granite look like my memory of smoke, but no matter. Will post pics when I can provide them.

HENRY JONES JR.
07-26-2015, 05:32 AM
This thread was requested to be brought back up. Many photos are on the first page (page 7 ....hmmm isn't this page count backwards?? Shouldn't it be page one??).


HERE IS THE CHINA CLIPPER HAT NEXT TO A GREY AKUBRA FED 4. The Clipper fedora is on the Left. Indoor lighting. As you can see, it is a brownish grey.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0077_zps815950a9.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0077_zps815950a9.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0078_zpsfc4858c7.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0078_zpsfc4858c7.jpg.html)


NEUTRONBOMB, I absolutely will listen to you. I have taken photos of this fedora next to grey fedoras, and a brown fedora so you can see that this HJ fedora is absolutely a brownish grey color. When I wear it indoors, it looks exactly like the color of the fedora as worn inside the China Clipper. Indoor light, and sunlight make the hat look different. Indoors, it looks more like a brown, outdoors in harsh sunlight, more like a brownish grey.

Seriously, I've never seen a color quite like this before.


HERE'S THE INSIDE TAG TELLING WHAT COLOR HJ CALLED THE COLOR OF THIS HAT.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0067_zps0f00679f.jpg.html)

I DO, IN FACT, BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE TRUE COLOR OF THE CHINA CLIPPER FEDORA THAT HARRISON FORD WORE IN HIS SUIT. It is a brownish grey (thus lies the confusion for years if it was brown or grey....it's actually both!

Is a tag like this fairly common on older HJ fedoras?

The workmanship, and the quality of the curry felt is a dream! Very lightweight, very floppy, just the most wonderful felt I've ever...........felt. Just amazing! NOW I know what members were trying to let us know about the older HJ Curry felt!! It IS different. On the first page of this thread, I posted pictures of a current HJ model being sold out of Japan of all places, well, it, my Akubra Fed 4, The Todd's costume version, and the Christy's of London fedoras ALL have a somewhat heavier, and thicker felt than this fedora. I now get it. True Vintage fedoras are different.

Also, everyone is correct. The hat color does, in fact, look different under different lighting. You guys were right!

If anyone has any questions, I'll do my best to answer them, and supply more photos.

-HJJ


HERE'S THE INSIDE MARKINGS OF MY VINTAGE HERBERT JOHNSON!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0063_zpsdf43655e.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0063_zpsdf43655e.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0065_zps9af31c79.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0065_zps9af31c79.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0064_zps4a024759.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0064_zps4a024759.jpg.html)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/indiana%20jones/IMG_0066_zps89baf38b.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/indiana%20jones/IMG_0066_zps89baf38b.jpg.html)