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Louisianna James
04-19-2013, 06:25 PM
Hi guys check these out, my two Herbert Johnsons, a movieshop Adventurer hat, and a bullwhip, but no guns for me though :D

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/8571/84885132.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img560/7375/80510058.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img577/2504/48069682.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img189/1932/47106705.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img856/5863/11828944.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img109/4729/96665221.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img688/5476/70389640.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img842/4711/61485235.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img46/3663/43099254.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img14/5934/w10ng.jpg

Hope you enjoy! :rolleyes:

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/6706/w11r.jpg

djd
04-19-2013, 08:20 PM
Jolly good. Some very nice ToD style feds

HENRY JONES JR.
04-20-2013, 04:26 AM
I have a love affair with Herbert Johnson hats. I too own two. The one I tried to use the hat stretcher on just really is too small still, but my "hero" HB ( my size) just is something I wear all the time now. I just want another at some point (in my size where I don't need a hat stretcher) so I can use one, and not worry too much what happens to it, and another for safe keeping and for display.

Louisianna James
04-22-2013, 12:09 PM
Jolly good. Some very nice ToD style feds

Thanks bro, actually the hat with the lighter ribbon is LC style, the movieshop hat with the dark ribbon is styled as the TOD bridge scene. :)

Louisianna James
04-22-2013, 12:38 PM
I have a love affair with Herbert Johnson hats. I too own two. The one I tried to use the hat stretcher on just really is too small still, but my "hero" HB ( my size) just is something I wear all the time now. I just want another at some point (in my size where I don't need a hat stretcher) so I can use one, and not worry too much what happens to it, and another for safe keeping and for display.

Hi HJJ my good friend long time been very busy with work and college , i also love my hats(even though they're not vintage) :D , The movieshop hat is malleable but too stiff, while my raider style hj are floppy but not too malleable. Btw I was wondering from what year(vintage) was your Hero hat is from and also the darker sable HJ. The more i research about the film used HJs, i realized that the hj made by Swales were different from the modern hj made by Swaine Adeney, Advintage, Todds etc, Since Swales retired around 2000, the felt color and thickness have changed by the new HJ owner. i was thinking that the color of felt that Swales used for all the HJ poet in the 80's and 90's was probably cork, light sable, or chocolate brown, but i think it's cork. I can tell that your Hero Hat is actually a real vintage HJ poet made by Swales, lucky you ;) , cause the felt is lighter than your other hat( not sure if Swales made that hat). Btw take very good care if those hats, and post more pics of your Hero Hat. :)

HENRY JONES JR.
04-22-2013, 10:57 PM
Hi HJJ my good friend long time been very busy with work and college , i also love my hats(even though they're not vintage) :D , The movieshop hat is malleable but too stiff, while my raider style hj are floppy but not too malleable. Btw I was wondering from what year(vintage) was your Hero hat is from and also the darker sable HJ. The more i research about the film used HJs, i realized that the hj made by Swales were different from the modern hj made by Swaine Adeney, Advintage, Todds etc, Since Swales retired around 2000, the felt color and thickness have changed by the new HJ owner. i was thinking that the color of felt that Swales used for all the HJ poet in the 80's and 90's was probably cork, light sable, or chocolate brown, but i think it's cork. I can tell that your Hero Hat is actually a real vintage HJ poet made by Swales, lucky you ;) , cause the felt is lighter than your other hat( not sure if Swales made that hat). Btw take very good care if those hats, and post more pics of your Hero Hat. :)

Hi buddy!!

I do plan to take more photos of my hero hat. For some odd reason, it never looks as good as it does in person! Don't know why. I'm always dissapointed how the photos turn out. I do think my hat may have been made my swales, as it is a lighter color brown, perhaps sable. The other, as you pointed out, is a much darker brown. The sweatband, and the satin liner are exactly the same, but the ribbon on the darker brown one was much lighter than my swales hat. My hero hat has a darker brown ribbon than the non swales hat, but it's still too light according to the members here (they are correct), but it is the way it actually was made, and is original to the hat.

Fithchamber found this website... http://www.maxcady.com/selections/indyhat.htm

It's identical to my hat. I'm guessing it's one and the same.

Can you, or anyone look at the photo on the website, and tell me which movie version this one is mostly patterned after? Is it generic Indy, or perhaps, Last Crusade style? The ribbon on the hat on the website looks darker than mine. Not sure why.

JeffDJ
04-22-2013, 11:53 PM
Anyone know if there's an English version of that maxcady site? Those are some fine looking hats, but I can't read anything!

fifthchamber
04-23-2013, 01:16 AM
Anyone know if there's an English version of that maxcady site? Those are some fine looking hats, but I can't read anything!

 No, no English language site...They don't sell overseas either, only in Japan..So there's no overseas shipping etc...

Honestly, while the felt looks ok, and the colour seems good, the hat band is a sad failure and I can't justify paying that much cash for something so......Weak.....

The money is best spent on decent hats all round...

In my opinion.....Their lighters were classy though, and their diaries are great too....

HENRY JONES JR.
04-23-2013, 01:22 AM
Anyone know if there's an English version of that maxcady site? Those are some fine looking hats, but I can't read anything!


Most search engines allow you to "translate" a page into English.

fifthchamber
04-23-2013, 01:26 AM
Can you, or anyone look at the photo on the website, and tell me which movie version this one is mostly patterned after? Is it generic Indy, or perhaps, Last Crusade style? The ribbon on the hat on the website looks darker than mine. Not sure why.

It doesn't say in the write up under the hat, but I'd say it's generic Indy....Close to Last Crusade, but without the brim change, and nowhere near Raiders except for the general shape.....

They make the point of stating that the hats used in the fourth film were not Herbert Johnson as well, which is cool...But there's nothing about the style they're aiming for in the photos...Given the jacket as well, I'd guess Last Crusade.......

- - - Updated - - -


Most search engines allow you to "translate" a page into English.

And yes, you can, but most translation engines aren't able to reverse the Japanese sentences and make sense of them in a way that reads easily....It'll be garbled as all get out....

I can translate anything you want to read, as long as it's not an entire page (I can't be bothered to translate that much...LOL)

HENRY JONES JR.
04-23-2013, 01:51 AM
It doesn't say in the write up under the hat, but I'd say it's generic Indy....Close to Last Crusade, but without the brim change, and nowhere near Raiders except for the general shape.....

They make the point of stating that the hats used in the fourth film were not Herbert Johnson as well, which is cool...But there's nothing about the style they're aiming for in the photos...Given the jacket as well, I'd guess Last Crusade.......

- - - Updated - - -



And yes, you can, but most translation engines aren't able to reverse the Japanese sentences and make sense of them in a way that reads easily....It'll be garbled as all get out....

I can translate anything you want to read, as long as it's not an entire page (I can't be bothered to translate that much...LOL)

You can read Japanese? Your a man of many talents. :) You are too cool!

fifthchamber
04-23-2013, 02:27 AM
Yup.....I live here, so read, write and speak it fluently....

If you need a short translation it's easy enough to do...And I promise, I'm better than Google... Maybe....LOL;)

HENRY JONES JR.
04-23-2013, 02:49 AM
take very good care if those hats, and post more pics of your Hero Hat. :)


See, I took this picture today, and it doesn't look right. Perhaps it's the lense or something. Believe me, It looks right, just not in pictures with my crappy camera.


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4087_zpsf939aa0c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4087_zpsf939aa0c.jpg.html)

Louisianna James
04-23-2013, 04:21 AM
Yup.....I live here, so read, write and speak it fluently....

If you need a short translation it's easy enough to do...And I promise, I'm better than Google... Maybe....LOL;)

Ya, Sayonara, Domo Arigato :D How was it like in Tokyo compared to Europe, Hong Kong, US or etc? I been to Hong Kong, and OMG too many counterfeit stuff, i even spotted a fake Indy Hat made of cheap felt lol, it's a funny experience in HK with the fake brands lol :D

- - - Updated - - -




http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4087_zpsf939aa0c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4087_zpsf939aa0c.jpg.html)

Beautiful Color, i can see the raider bash clearly, good job! ;)

HENRY JONES JR.
04-23-2013, 04:55 AM
Ya, Sayonara, Domo Arigato :D How was it like in Tokyo compared to Europe, Hong Kong, US or etc? I been to Hong Kong, and OMG too many counterfeit stuff, i even spotted a fake Indy Hat made of cheap felt lol, it's a funny experience in HK with the fake brands lol :D

- - - Updated - - -




Beautiful Color, i can see the raider bash clearly, good job! ;)


I can't take credit for the bashes or anything, as it's just as it came from the maker. I've made zero changes to it (unlike the one I used a hat stretcher on). It was mint when I got it. It's color is wonderful! I hate my camera....lol.

fifthchamber
04-23-2013, 06:40 AM
Ya, Sayonara, Domo Arigato :D How was it like in Tokyo compared to Europe, Hong Kong, US or etc? I been to Hong Kong, and OMG too many counterfeit stuff, i even spotted a fake Indy Hat made of cheap felt lol, it's a funny experience in HK with the fake brands lol :D

- - - Updated - - -

Beautiful Color, i can see the raider bash clearly, good job! ;)

Hmm...Big question that....Wide open meanings...Heh...I like it a lot though...Like any place, there are many things crazy here too, but far and away it's a decent place to live and work..Not so many counterfeit things, since the Japanese generally prefer decent and expensive (in general), so it's unlike Hong Kong in that regard...But I don't really know what it compares to, since to me, Tokyo is off in a zone of it's own.....People wise, Tokyo is unlike anywhere else (although perhaps HK and Shanghai are closer to it than London say?)...Crowded would be an understatement....

Any other specific questions would need to be narrowed down to be answered easily...But I love this place...It's crowded, cool, expensive, funny, annoying, interesting and vibrant for me....Basically...

The only real similarity with HK would be the use of kanji....Hehe...

Compared to London it's far bigger, more crowded, less "pretty" to look at, and more "Japanese"..I reckon..

- - - Updated - - -

Any chance we could get a photo of the hat from a flat on angle? The angle chosen makes the taper seem worse than it probably is?

Maybe a direct front and side on? Or a slightly above photo would help more?

Thanks!

HENRY JONES JR.
04-23-2013, 07:02 AM
Hmm...Big question that....Wide open meanings...Heh...I like it a lot though...Like any place, there are many things crazy here too, but far and away it's a decent place to live and work..Not so many counterfeit things, since the Japanese generally prefer decent and expensive (in general), so it's unlike Hong Kong in that regard...But I don't really know what it compares to, since to me, Tokyo is off in a zone of it's own.....People wise, Tokyo is unlike anywhere else (although perhaps HK and Shanghai are closer to it than London say?)...Crowded would be an understatement....

Any other specific questions would need to be narrowed down to be answered easily...But I love this place...It's crowded, cool, expensive, funny, annoying, interesting and vibrant for me....Basically...

The only real similarity with HK would be the use of kanji....Hehe...

Compared to London it's far bigger, more crowded, less "pretty" to look at, and more "Japanese"..I reckon..

- - - Updated - - -

Any chance we could get a photo of the hat from a flat on angle? The angle chosen makes the taper seem worse than it probably is?

Maybe a direct front and side on? Or a slightly above photo would help more?

Thanks!

I'll try. There isn't any taper, as it's basicly new, but my GD camera makes it look like it sucks, but it's actually a very nice standard HJ POET. I'll try more photos, but to be honest, it just won't look the same as it does to the naked eye.

How long have you lived in TOYKO? Do you plan to stay there?

This is an odd question, but a friend of mine went to Japan for business, and told me that the women in Japan would just LOVE me. I asked what he meant. He said that Japanese women really like white men. They really would like a relationship with white American men, and would treat you extremely well. He said they are facinated with American men, more so than the average Japanese man.

Do you find this to be true in general, or was he misled by those who live there that told him this.

I know...odd question.

fifthchamber
04-23-2013, 07:20 AM
I'll try. There isn't any taper, as it's basicly new, but my GD camera makes it look like it sucks, but it's actually a very nice standard HJ POET. I'll try more photos, but to be honest, it just won't look the same as it does to the naked eye.

How long have you lived in TOYKO? Do you plan to stay there?

This is an odd question, but a friend of mine went to Japan for business, and told me that the women in Japan would just LOVE me. I asked what he meant. He said that Japanese women really like white men. They really would like a relationship with white American men, and would treat you extremely well. He said they are facinated with American men, more so than the average Japanese man.

Do you find this to be true in general, or was he misled by those who live there that told him this.

I know...odd question.

I've been here almost ten years now..Ten this summer actually..So yeah, I think I'll stay...Essentially..I'm not 100%, but I like it still, and I don't feel like moving to live anywhere else, so until that changes, yeah, I'll stay in Tokyo I think..

As for the question.....Hmmm.....It depends on a lot of factors....In general, I suspect that there's a "class" of woman here that does indeed prefer foreign men over Japanese....But I don't know if "class" is quite right really? I would say that it's easy to find and have a short, easy and quick relationship with someone like that...That wouldn't go very much further than a one night, or one week thing...I've also seen that the general public opinion is somewhat less favourable towards "American men" recently than perhaps it was 10+ years ago.........I suspect a lot of that has to do with the world trend away from love of anything and everything American perhaps....Japan is no different there....

In general though, yes, I would say that's probably a true enough statement....White men here (Any men outside of asian men) are in a minority, and so there's still the "unusual" aura that might attract women....For sure.....But like I said, it really does depend on so much more than "just" being foreign that it's not so easy to generalise....

For a one night thing? Yes...Easy I would say, if that's what you're looking for...For a longer term thing? No...Not quite as easy....In my opinion...

HENRY JONES JR.
04-23-2013, 11:23 PM
I've been here almost ten years now..Ten this summer actually..So yeah, I think I'll stay...Essentially..I'm not 100%, but I like it still, and I don't feel like moving to live anywhere else, so until that changes, yeah, I'll stay in Tokyo I think..

As for the question.....Hmmm.....It depends on a lot of factors....In general, I suspect that there's a "class" of woman here that does indeed prefer foreign men over Japanese....But I don't know if "class" is quite right really? I would say that it's easy to find and have a short, easy and quick relationship with someone like that...That wouldn't go very much further than a one night, or one week thing...I've also seen that the general public opinion is somewhat less favourable towards "American men" recently than perhaps it was 10+ years ago.........I suspect a lot of that has to do with the world trend away from love of anything and everything American perhaps....Japan is no different there....

In general though, yes, I would say that's probably a true enough statement....White men here (Any men outside of asian men) are in a minority, and so there's still the "unusual" aura that might attract women....For sure.....But like I said, it really does depend on so much more than "just" being foreign that it's not so easy to generalise....

For a one night thing? Yes...Easy I would say, if that's what you're looking for...For a longer term thing? No...Not quite as easy....In my opinion...


Yeah, I meant a long term relationship, not a one nighter. My friend made it sound that the ladies there find American men more interesting than the Japanese men, and find them very attractive. I don't know if it's a status thing or what, I'm only writing what he said. He was with the wealthy, successfull crowd there while on business.

Thanks for your answer! Your pretty interesting my friend!

JeffDJ
04-23-2013, 11:59 PM
Whoops, served me for not look through the rest of the thread. Answered a post from the previous page that made no sense without a quote. Anyway, um, great thread. Love looking at hats and stuff from other members! :D

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 12:13 AM
Whoops, served me for not look through the rest of the thread. Answered a post from the previous page that made no sense without a quote. Anyway, um, great thread. Love looking at hats and stuff from other members! :D

I took some more shots. I'll post 'em when I can Jeff! P.S. My camera Still sucks. lol

JeffDJ
04-24-2013, 12:34 AM
See, I took this picture today, and it doesn't look right. Perhaps it's the lense or something. Believe me, It looks right, just not in pictures with my crappy camera.


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4087_zpsf939aa0c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4087_zpsf939aa0c.jpg.html)

Is this the same hat as you have in your avatar? I can see what you mean about it not looking right. The top part almost looks slanted back or something. Perhaps it was the angle of the shot?

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 12:40 AM
Is this the same hat as you have in your avatar? I can see what you mean about it not looking right. The top part almost looks slanted back or something. Perhaps it was the angle of the shot?

Nope, the one in the avatar is the smaller size hat that I shaped myself (with the hat stretcher to make it bigger). The other photo is of the factory HJ hat. It's perfectly shaped, but my G D camera makes it look weird, and it just doesn't look right.

I'll post more photos of my hat when I can (I took them already, just need to post it). Hopefully, the new photos will look better, as I'm wearing it.....I hope it looks better...

fifthchamber
04-24-2013, 01:50 AM
Yeah, a long term relationship is always possible if you're a decent person, fluent in Japanese, willing to bend some in regards to where you both live, and have no issue with the other cultural issues that come with "settling down" in Japan...

If you're relatively handsome, it's easier for sure...Obese men or those who don't take as much care of their clothing or body/face stand a lower chance of course, but in general I'd say yes...You have the "interesting" thing from the start, so that's already something that'll stand you in good stead..It'd just be up to you as a person to make it better or blow it I suspect?

Being wealthy (anywhere) tends to rule out the need to be in top shape or be attractive physically as much...So that's something separate I reckon....If you have the combo of wealth, decent condition, and interesting and a decent personality, yes, it'd be "easy" to find someone good to settle down with here I should think...

Basically...

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 03:27 AM
Yeah, a long term relationship is always possible if you're a decent person, fluent in Japanese, willing to bend some in regards to where you both live, and have no issue with the other cultural issues that come with "settling down" in Japan...

If you're relatively handsome, it's easier for sure...Obese men or those who don't take as much care of their clothing or body/face stand a lower chance of course, but in general I'd say yes...You have the "interesting" thing from the start, so that's already something that'll stand you in good stead..It'd just be up to you as a person to make it better or blow it I suspect?

Being wealthy (anywhere) tends to rule out the need to be in top shape or be attractive physically as much...So that's something separate I reckon....If you have the combo of wealth, decent condition, and interesting and a decent personality, yes, it'd be "easy" to find someone good to settle down with here I should think...

Basically...

That rule seems to fit just about anywhere I'm guessing. lol

fifthchamber
04-24-2013, 03:29 AM
Yup..Mostly it does...But women are women worldwide...Men are men.....A woman being Japanese means you have the "interest" factor as a Westener to her perhaps....Outside of that? Yeah....Women are women...No real change there at all....

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 03:34 AM
Yup..Mostly it does...But women are women worldwide...Men are men.....A woman being Japanese means you have the "interest" factor as a Westener to her perhaps....Outside of that? Yeah....Women are women...No real change there at all....

I can't remember where I saw it, but I seem to remember a you tube video that interviewed asian women in the U.S., and they overwhelmingly said they prefer to date white men over asian men. I was amazed by their answers as to why. I'll bet the video is still on there!

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 03:40 AM
I can't remember where I saw it, but I seem to remember a you tube video that interviewed asian women in the U.S., and they overwhelmingly said they prefer to date white men over asian men. I was amazed by their answers as to why. I'll bet the video is still on there!


I found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI3lPLsbwjw

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 04:13 AM
take very good care if those hats, and post more pics of your Hero Hat. :)


Well, here is another attempt. This time in the mirror. Most photos are reversed due to the mirror. I flipped one photo, but not the rest. I have streaks on the glass, so it looks like it's on the hat. It's not. I guess it turned out better than the previous attempts. Not great, but better I suppose.


http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4104_zps5eaa130c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4104_zps5eaa130c.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4102JPGflip_zps1c27d7cd.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4102JPGflip_zps1c27d7cd.jpg.html)

fifthchamber
04-24-2013, 04:29 AM
I found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI3lPLsbwjw

Hahaha...All those girls were American Asian......Hehe....

The same thing probably does apply here..But there's not quite the focus there is in that video..

I'd certainly agree that the "cool" men here in Japan are closer to "female" shape and styling...More feminine for sure...I can see that....The height thing perhaps? Yes...... I wouldn't say there's a "class" thing though....

And yes, Japanese are in general far more shy, so there is that as well..

Since I'm a teacher..This video is (officially) "accurate" for high school girls here for sure...LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7RmPCP7OI

And this might answer the other question you had..LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=pyHL0tzHKtA&feature=endscreen

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 04:45 AM
Hahaha...All those girls were American Asian......Hehe....

The same thing probably does apply here..But there's not quite the focus there is in that video..

I'd certainly agree that the "cool" men here in Japan are closer to "female" shape and styling...More feminine for sure...I can see that....The height thing perhaps? Yes...... I wouldn't say there's a "class" thing though....

And yes, Japanese are in general far more shy, so there is that as well..

Since I'm a teacher..This video is (officially) "accurate" for high school girls here for sure...LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7RmPCP7OI

And this might answer the other question you had..LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=pyHL0tzHKtA&feature=endscreen

LOL!! I like the last video the best. :D

fifthchamber
04-24-2013, 04:49 AM
I think the hat looks fine taken from directly on too....It shows less slope and less cone shape that way...Decent stuff, and nice colours too...Is the hat ribbon original? If so, could you post a photo of the ribbon knot? I'd like to see if they're all the same as the ones on the Max Cady site, or if that's something that just slipped on the photo they posted there?

Thanks!

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 04:58 AM
I think the hat looks fine taken from directly on too....It shows less slope and less cone shape that way...Decent stuff, and nice colours too...Is the hat ribbon original? If so, could you post a photo of the ribbon knot? I'd like to see if they're all the same as the ones on the Max Cady site, or if that's something that just slipped on the photo they posted there?

Thanks!

Thanks for the compliments on the fedora. In person it's really nice! The ribbon and the fedora are all original from the maker. I'd be happy to take a photo of the ribbon for you. Give me a moment.

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 05:09 AM
I think the hat looks fine taken from directly on too....It shows less slope and less cone shape that way...Decent stuff, and nice colours too...Is the hat ribbon original? If so, could you post a photo of the ribbon knot? I'd like to see if they're all the same as the ones on the Max Cady site, or if that's something that just slipped on the photo they posted there?

Thanks!

Here's (blurry) photo of the ribbon.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4109_zpsb7741052.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4109_zpsb7741052.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4104_zps5eaa130c.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4104_zps5eaa130c.jpg.html)

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4102JPGflip_zps1c27d7cd.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4102JPGflip_zps1c27d7cd.jpg.html)[/QUOTE]

fifthchamber
04-24-2013, 05:13 AM
Is the central piece in two sections? The actual bow loops look better than those on the Max Cady site though...And the whole thing does look better than I'd expected from the Max Cady photos.....

Thanks!

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 05:20 AM
Is the central piece in two sections? The actual bow loops look better than those on the Max Cady site though...And the whole thing does look better than I'd expected from the Max Cady photos.....

Thanks!


Here's a better photo.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w17/steven-spielberg/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4111_zps10afaea2.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/steven-spielberg/media/newest%20photos/brand%20new%20photos/100_4111_zps10afaea2.jpg.html)

The center is in two pieces, or sections. Is that good or bad?

fifthchamber
04-24-2013, 06:34 AM
I wouldn't say "good" or "bad" about it.....I suspect something like that is a design-based thing, so they've chosen that design over just using one single piece......In general, I like a cleaner look on my hats and go for a single piece, but that's not good or bad, just me....

For Indy, I'd recommend a single piece, since the film's (all four) ribbons were like that....But it depends on what you're cool with yourself I think.....

HENRY JONES JR.
04-24-2013, 06:36 AM
I wouldn't say "good" or "bad" about it.....I suspect something like that is a design-based thing, so they've chosen that design over just using one single piece......In general, I like a cleaner look on my hats and go for a single piece, but that's not good or bad, just me....

For Indy, I'd recommend a single piece, since the film's (all four) ribbons were like that....But it depends on what you're cool with yourself I think.....

Interesting, considering it's a HJ, and not a replica indy hat. Guess perhaps they did something different in the later years.

Depending on the angle of my hat, the distance and the light, mostly, it looks like a single piece, unless you look closely.

fifthchamber
04-24-2013, 06:48 AM
Yeah...But Herbert Johnson has changed many things over the time that elapsed between the films and after Last Crusade too..The entire thing has changed...Block shape, felt used, ribbon used, and the ribbon pattern....As well as the inside lining (Design as well..Not sure about fabric)...So it's entirely expected with them....Sadly..

djd
04-24-2013, 03:10 PM
Yes it's been a long time since the Poet was a good indy hat which is why so many people tried to make a better replica, such as the Fed IV. The only good modern HJs were those reblocked by Steve D and sold my Magnoli. I like hats generally so I'm not overly obsessed with just indy hats. Even so the HJ isn't good value compared to others out there

fifthchamber
04-24-2013, 10:57 PM
Sadly I agree with DJD....Herbert Johnson is a bit of a shadow of it's former self....Christy's too actually....A lot of it having to do with the move away from handmade, hand shaped hats to something that could be sold in larger bulk....They can be re-blocked, and have new ribbons made and sewn in and they'll look ok, but the ones I've seen aren't quite what the price says they should be......

30,000 yen for one? Last year, due to the strong yen and weak dollar, I paid just a little over that (39,000) for a handmade hat, to my size, and in the style and colour I wanted from John Penman.....It's just not worth the cash for anything outside of the name....

But I've seen a few that looked good, better than the majority of "fedoras" sold online and in shops here....And they're still really one of only a few places to still sell a wide brimmed, taller crowned hat in this age of stingy brims and low crowns...So I guess, while not "Indy" especially, they are still different enough from the "herd"....

HENRY JONES JR.
05-27-2013, 04:27 AM
I wouldn't say "good" or "bad" about it.....I suspect something like that is a design-based thing, so they've chosen that design over just using one single piece......In general, I like a cleaner look on my hats and go for a single piece, but that's not good or bad, just me....

For Indy, I'd recommend a single piece, since the film's (all four) ribbons were like that....But it depends on what you're cool with yourself I think.....

fithchamber, today, I was looking at the TEMPLE OF DOOM on Blu Ray, and in the scene in India where Indy says, "He says they stole thier children." Indy turns in profile, and you can clearly see that the ribbon is in two piceces like my HJ, not one piece. You can see the two seperate cut pieces. Could this vary from scene to scene, or film to film fedora?

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 12:18 AM
fithchamber, today, I was looking at the TEMPLE OF DOOM on Blu Ray, and in the scene in India where Indy says, "He says they stole thier children." Indy turns in profile, and you can clearly see that the ribbon is in two piceces like my HJ, not one piece. You can see the two seperate cut pieces. Could this vary from scene to scene, or film to film fedora?

fithchamber, hoping you see this, so I'm bumping it up! Indy_cheers

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 12:23 AM
It could certainly vary, of course....The Temple hats weren't Herbert Johnson either....So there's already a change there....And the new makers may or may not have used top quality materials in the making of the hats they sent out to be used.....

I'd like to see a screen capture of it...But I can check it easily enough when I get home tonight.....The band in the middle of the bow is in two pieces? It's a style, for sure..Just not one I'm fond of....And not the same as the first film, third or fourth...So a rather random mistake I suspect...

I'll check when I get home from work...

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 12:49 AM
It could certainly vary, of course....The Temple hats weren't Herbert Johnson either....So there's already a change there....And the new makers may or may not have used top quality materials in the making of the hats they sent out to be used.....

I'd like to see a screen capture of it...But I can check it easily enough when I get home tonight.....The band in the middle of the bow is in two pieces? It's a style, for sure..Just not one I'm fond of....And not the same as the first film, third or fourth...So a rather random mistake I suspect...

I'll check when I get home from work...

I saw it on a 48" screen and blu ray. I thought that COW states that the hats were Herbert Johnson on all but CS? I value your opinion very much fithchamber. Thank you. Indy_cheers

Anyone else wish to chime in?

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 12:59 AM
With the incredible success of Raiders, the Indiana Jones fedora was burned into the public consciousness. However, as popular a symbol the Raiders fedora was to the character, the fedora for the sequel would end up looking very different in a variety of ways. The creators of the films obviously wanted to go back to Herbert Johnson to retain continuity for the sequel to Raiders but what ended up on screen diverged from its predecessor.

The Cury felt used to make the Raiders fedora was no longer being used. In its place was a thicker, Borsalino felt which reacted much differently than that of the Raiders fedora. For some unknown reason to this day, Herbert Johnson also ceased using the original block which resulted in a very different look all around. The Temple of Doom fedora they ended up with had a slightly lower crown. Where the Raiders fedora was made with a stove-pipe shaped crown, the Temple had a good amount of taper to it which is immediately noticeable. This fedora also omitted the high tight pinch and instead sported a high, almost un-bashed light pinch. The tack marks on the ribbon were now noticeable as well and since there was no 'turn' present on this fedora the bow sat back above the ear and the brim remained even and undistorted.

It's not really clear from the way it's worded what they think the company was that was used...I've heard Stetson thrown around as well...But I can't see why, if it was an HJ, the shape ended up so dramatically changed....The felt being different makes a change, for sure, and HJ getting rid of the original block can be worked around, but surely they'd have come up with something closer than the hat that makes it on screen? I dunno.....

That, plus the weaker ribbon work (tacks showing, and as you state, a two piece bow perhaps?) would indicate a company that cared a fair deal less about their hats than HJ (I'd hope...), but that's not proof, and HJ were hit and miss to a degree there too...So it's not impossible....

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 01:04 AM
It's not really clear from the way it's worded what they think the company was that was used...I've heard Stetson thrown around as well...But I can't see why, if it was an HJ, the shape ended up so dramatically changed....The felt being different makes a change, for sure, and HJ getting rid of the original block can be worked around, but surely they'd have come up with something closer than the hat that makes it on screen? I dunno.....

That, plus the weaker ribbon work (tacks showing, and as you state, a two piece bow perhaps?) would indicate a company that cared a fair deal less about their hats than HJ (I'd hope...), but that's not proof, and HJ were hit and miss to a degree there too...So it's not impossible....

Another Mystery for us to solve here on FORTUNE AND GLORY?

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 01:25 AM
I think it's beyond "solving" really....As far as I can tell, there's at least two different hats used in Temple....One, this one

http://www.screenused.com/index.cfm?sectionID=item-detail&subsectionID=index.cfm&item_id=2557

Is a Herbert Johnson apparently, and was used in the bridge scenes.....(It's slightly closer to Raiders as well actually...Perhaps a hat reused from the first film?), and this hat clearly doesn't have the two piece ribbon bow that you mentioned...So whatever that hat was, there is a chance that the two piece hat wasn't a Herbert Johnson......

There's also the hat that Vic Armstrong is wearing in the spike room when Willie comes running in with insects on her and restarts the mechanism....It's not Ford in that scene, but the hat being worn by Vic has no liner, and probably isn't the HJ either.....Have a look on the Blu Ray, you'll see when he rolls through the door and drops the hat, it's clean inside...No liner...

Anyway...

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 03:04 AM
i think it's beyond "solving" really....as far as i can tell, there's at least two different hats used in temple....one, this one

http://www.screenused.com/index.cfm?sectionid=item-detail&subsectionid=index.cfm&item_id=2557

is a herbert johnson apparently, and was used in the bridge scenes.....(it's slightly closer to raiders as well actually...perhaps a hat reused from the first film?), and this hat clearly doesn't have the two piece ribbon bow that you mentioned...so whatever that hat was, there is a chance that the two piece hat wasn't a herbert johnson......

There's also the hat that vic armstrong is wearing in the spike room when willie comes running in with insects on her and restarts the mechanism....it's not ford in that scene, but the hat being worn by vic has no liner, and probably isn't the hj either.....have a look on the blu ray, you'll see when he rolls through the door and drops the hat, it's clean inside...no liner...

Anyway...

awesome!

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 03:08 AM
I've found out that the hat listed and shown above doesn't have a liner in it either....The "Herbert Johnson" is written in italics on the leather of the band, as well as a handwritten I.J. 1 in there as well and what remains of an address line.....So the lining wasn't the clue there...The "IJ1" might be a reference to it being a left over from Raiders, or to it being a "hero" hat of some sort for Ford.....Which one Vic was wearing, I couldn't guess..But the no liner might mean it was this one (Used in the studio shots mostly it seems? On the bridge, and in the plane)....

There's one HJ, with no two piece ribbon, and your hat, with the ribbon in pieces, used in Sri Lanka for the shooting so far then....Interesting eh?

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 03:23 AM
I've found out that the hat listed and shown above doesn't have a liner in it either....The "Herbert Johnson" is written in italics on the leather of the band, as well as a handwritten I.J. 1 in there as well and what remains of an address line.....So the lining wasn't the clue there...The "IJ1" might be a reference to it being a left over from Raiders, or to it being a "hero" hat of some sort for Ford.....Which one Vic was wearing, I couldn't guess..But the no liner might mean it was this one (Used in the studio shots mostly it seems? On the bridge, and in the plane)....

There's one HJ, with no two piece ribbon, and your hat, with the ribbon in pieces, used in Sri Lanka for the shooting so far then....Interesting eh?

I'm EXTREMELY interested in this! Could the ribbons be put on, and replaced by the film's costume crew?

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 03:31 AM
Possible, but unlikely....Why would you need to? You get one hat (or 5) and they all have ribbons = End of story...No need to change those around...But the hats would have been changed around depending on location and how well the last used hat stood up to the damage it got in the last scenes...So they'd have changed the hats out for different scenes depending on those factors I think....That was why I can see them using the HJ in the studio shots at least..Because they were back "home", and could get their hands on the hats they had there....

In Sri Lanka, I suspect there was a different hat, and a different story about why they took it....Heat, damage to the HJ (It looks beat to hell by the end of shooting there), and perhaps promotion tied into the "other brands" used as well could all factor in there...

But no, I think it's highly unlikely that the filming team bothered changing the ribbons out....Changing the hats? Yes, ribbons alone? No....

Besides..If I recall correctly, there are several scenes where the tacks keeping the ribbon tied to the hat can be seen....And it would be a REAL pain to have to sew those on and back off again for very little reason....

Odds are against it.

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 03:36 AM
Possible, but unlikely....Why would you need to? You get one hat (or 5) and they all have ribbons = End of story...No need to change those around...But the hats would have been changed around depending on location and how well the last used hat stood up to the damage it got in the last scenes...So they'd have changed the hats out for different scenes depending on those factors I think....That was why I can see them using the HJ in the studio shots at least..Because they were back "home", and could get their hands on the hats they had there....

In Sri Lanka, I suspect there was a different hat, and a different story about why they took it....Heat, damage to the HJ (It looks beat to hell by the end of shooting there), and perhaps promotion tied into the "other brands" used as well could all factor in there...

But no, I think it's highly unlikely that the filming team bothered changing the ribbons out....Changing the hats? Yes, ribbons alone? No....

Besides..If I recall correctly, there are several scenes where the tacks keeping the ribbon tied to the hat can be seen....And it would be a REAL pain to have to sew those on and back off again for very little reason....

Odds are against it.


O.k.. I'm reaching. Just looking for a reason to explain this.

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 03:41 AM
No reason to search so hard I suspect?

The simplest reason is that there are two hats we're looking at (at least)..One, the HJ, with no lining, and a one piece ribbon bow, used in the studio shooting for certain, and the other, from ______________? With a two piece ribbon bow and used on location in Sri Lanka..

With the possibility of several other hats being used as well......But at least those two..

I want to get home now and check out this hat ribbon in the village scene...LOL

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 03:53 AM
No reason to search so hard I suspect?

The simplest reason is that there are two hats we're looking at (at least)..One, the HJ, with no lining, and a one piece ribbon bow, used in the studio shooting for certain, and the other, from ______________? With a two piece ribbon bow and used on location in Sri Lanka..

With the possibility of several other hats being used as well......But at least those two..

I want to get home now and check out this hat ribbon in the village scene...LOL

Let me know if you see it! Remember, it's in the scene where he says "He says they stole thier children".

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 04:13 AM
Sure..I can get a good screengrab and throw it up here too I reckon...

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 04:18 AM
Sure..I can get a good screengrab and throw it up here too I reckon...

I hope it shows up on something small, like a computer screen. Tomorrow, I'm going to look for the two ribbon bows on more hat scenes in TOD to see if I can spot more. I just got the blu ray, not sure if it zooms, as I don't see a zoom on the remote control.

A screen grab would be awesome!

Gunslinger
05-29-2013, 04:21 AM
They're both HJ's as far as I can tell - the hats in Temple of Doom were a model of HJ's with no liner, but the HJ crest stamped in gold onto the felt itself. (I had one that I sold to Raskilinov here.) You can see pics of the inside of the real ToD hat on the French Indy fan / gear website (the url escapes me ATM)

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 04:28 AM
They're both HJ's as far as I can tell - the hats in Temple of Doom were a model of HJ's with no liner, but the HJ crest stamped in gold onto the felt itself. (I had one that I sold to Raskilinov here.) You can see pics of the inside of the real ToD hat on the French Indy fan / gear website (the url escapes me ATM)

Gunslinger, Join fithchamber and I on to figure out why the bow is tied with a single ribbon, but a double in another shot. Why would that be? The hats don't really look any different other than that.

djd
05-29-2013, 08:12 AM
The airplane scenes are alleged to be the Stetson. It certainly looks to be a very odd shape compared to the others

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 10:57 AM
The airplane scenes are alleged to be the Stetson. It certainly looks to be a very odd shape compared to the others

Yeah, but the Screenused photos match with the plane shots eh? That's a Herbert Johnson, they mentioned that when they posted the photos first time out...An HJ with no lining and a different typeface on the sweat band (from Raiders)...

It's a funky shape, but if that's an HJ, then maybe Kurt is on with the idea that there were several "funky" HJ's?

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 11:34 AM
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/fifthchamber/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h30m11s111_zps2e4eacfd.png (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/fifthchamber/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h30m11s111_zps2e4eacfd.png.html)


Here's the screengrab...Indeed...No doubt about it....Two piece bow....Rather better line than the current HJ's perhaps, but it's definitely in two pieces..

fifthchamber
05-29-2013, 12:02 PM
For comparison, here's the plane hat band...

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/fifthchamber/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h46m57s197_zps7f9e44e6.png (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/fifthchamber/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h46m57s197_zps7f9e44e6.png.html)

No two piece bow there...

And THIS is REALLY interesting....

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/fifthchamber/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h56m56s67_zps6e3a0e0d.png (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/fifthchamber/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h56m56s67_zps6e3a0e0d.png.html)

Which side do ya'll see the bow being on? Cause........I'm pretty sure, unless I lurnt rong at skool, that's the wrong side dude.....

Lastly....This is an oldie...But fun...I got a clear photo...."Indiana Who?" (Vic Armstrong)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/fifthchamber/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h53m06s56_zpsd03a9adc.png (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/fifthchamber/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h53m06s56_zpsd03a9adc.png.html)

djd
05-29-2013, 02:53 PM
I think Tom Baker's Dr Who wore a HJ Poet originally (in the mid 70's) and that was all sorts of wierd shapes..... Judging by the way it was screwed up I guess that might have been without a liner too?

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 03:45 PM
For comparison, here's the plane hat band...

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/fifthchamber/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h46m57s197_zps7f9e44e6.png (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/fifthchamber/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h46m57s197_zps7f9e44e6.png.html)

No two piece bow there...

And THIS is REALLY interesting....

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/fifthchamber/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h56m56s67_zps6e3a0e0d.png (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/fifthchamber/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h56m56s67_zps6e3a0e0d.png.html)

Which side do ya'll see the bow being on? Cause........I'm pretty sure, unless I lurnt rong at skool, that's the wrong side dude.....

Lastly....This is an oldie...But fun...I got a clear photo...."Indiana Who?" (Vic Armstrong)

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/fifthchamber/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h53m06s56_zpsd03a9adc.png (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/fifthchamber/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h53m06s56_zpsd03a9adc.png.html)


AWESOME SCREEN GRABS! Never noticed Vic there before! The band on the wrong side is most likely a flipped image. Not sure why they do that in films from time to time, but most likely a flipped image. GREAT JOB!!!

- - - Updated - - -


http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z358/fifthchamber/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h30m11s111_zps2e4eacfd.png (http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/fifthchamber/media/vlcsnap-2013-05-29-20h30m11s111_zps2e4eacfd.png.html)


Here's the screengrab...Indeed...No doubt about it....Two piece bow....Rather better line than the current HJ's perhaps, but it's definitely in two pieces..

Thank you so much for posting this. Makes ya wonder, doesn't it? Lots of funky things going on in the fedora dept. in TOD.

HENRY JONES JR.
05-29-2013, 08:09 PM
Indydude18 bought this 1981 vintage Herbert Johnson with a two piece bow.

http://www.fortuneandglory.org/forums/threads/2049-Real-Screen-Accurate-Last-Crusade-Fedora-with-accurate-ribbon-vinatge-style?p=21681#post21681

Gunslinger
05-30-2013, 02:49 AM
I've never noticed the ribbon thing - is it in any other frame than the one above? Could that just be the light casting a strong shadow on the indent of the ribbon under?

In any event, no reason why both variations weren't available from HJ, as Indydude's shots show.

HENRY JONES JR.
05-30-2013, 03:45 AM
I've never noticed the ribbon thing - is it in any other frame than the one above? Could that just be the light casting a strong shadow on the indent of the ribbon under?

In any event, no reason why both variations weren't available from HJ, as Indydude's shots show.

Not sure Gunslinger. I'm checking TOD now. Not all shots are closeups, and those that are seem to have him facing ribbon side away from camera, but I'm looking.

I don't think it's a light casting, as it stays in place as he turns his head. The screen capture just shows a single frame, and doesn't show the shot moving.

Fithchamber, what do you think?

neutronbomb
05-30-2013, 03:54 AM
I thought I read somewhere that women's hats have the bow on the other side.

fifthchamber
05-30-2013, 04:21 AM
Not sure Gunslinger. I'm checking TOD now. Not all shots are closeups, and those that are seem to have him facing ribbon side away from camera, but I'm looking.

I don't think it's a light casting, as it stays in place as he turns his head. The screen capture just shows a single frame, and doesn't show the shot moving.

Fithchamber, what do you think?

No...Not a light play..It's stable as he moves, with no sign of a line change or shadow variation..It's a two piece bow...I tried looking through the rest of that scene too, but the angles are lower, or to the other side, and there were no clear enough views really...I'll have another look tonight..

As for the camera being flipped in the Temple of Doom, that works as a theory, but I think falls down somewhat because of the scenery...The background temple isn't flipped..Which means the hat and Ford are the only ones reversed....Which wouldn't happen..The shot starts when Indy is handed his hat by Short Round, and the exit and lever for the pit-lowering mechanism are on the proper side for the set..So I don't see how it could be flipped and still make sense in that....I'm no expert, but I don't see how the camera flip trick works in this instance..

HENRY JONES JR.
05-30-2013, 04:28 AM
No...Not a light play..It's stable as he moves, with no sign of a line change or shadow variation..It's a two piece bow...I tried looking through the rest of that scene too, but the angles are lower, or to the other side, and there were no clear enough views really...I'll have another look tonight..

As for the camera being flipped in the Temple of Doom, that works as a theory, but I think falls down somewhat because of the scenery...The background temple isn't flipped..Which means the hat and Ford are the only ones reversed....Which wouldn't happen..The shot starts when Indy is handed his hat by Short Round, and the exit and lever for the pit-lowering mechanism are on the proper side for the set..So I don't see how it could be flipped and still make sense in that....I'm no expert, but I don't see how the camera flip trick works in this instance..

Check the scene to which side his hair is parted, and where his chin scar is. Is short rounds NY hat logo reversed?

I looked to see if I could find the split ribbon today. The closest I could find is when on the bridge, Indy is trying to stop his heart from being ripped out. I checked frame by frame on it, but it may, or may not be split. Inconclusive.

HENRY JONES JR.
05-30-2013, 04:37 AM
I think it's a reverse image. Indy's hair is parted on the other side now in that shot where the ribbon is on the wrong side. I think the whip marks on his back are also reversed. Indy also never wears his shoulder bag strap on the side he's wearing it in the reversed shot.

Also, Indy puts on short rounds hat on shorty's head with his left hand, and puts his own hat on...with his left hand. Harrison is right handed.

It's a flipped image.

fifthchamber
05-30-2013, 04:43 AM
I'm at work, so can't check....And Indy's not really "wearing" the bag...He just has it over the shoulder...So that's a touch harder to judge....The string follows the same right shoulder to left hip swing as the bag usually does...

If his parting is on the right side of his head, then yeah, it's reversed...Ford has a left side parting....But I can't check that from here..

HENRY JONES JR.
05-30-2013, 04:48 AM
I think it's a reverse image. Indy's hair is parted on the other side now in that shot where the ribbon is on the wrong side. I think the whip marks on his back are also reversed. Indy also never wears his shoulder bag strap on the side he's wearing it in the reversed shot.

Also, Indy puts on short rounds hat on shorty's head with his left hand, and puts his own hat on...with his left hand. Harrison is right handed.

It's a flipped image.


I added a few more things. Read above.

fifthchamber
05-30-2013, 04:54 AM
Ah well...That pulls away some from the idea you had about the ribbons being changed by the film crew from scene to scene.....I'd thought that this might have shown that....But if it's just the same, then there's no ribbon change...

Which leaves us still with at least two hats, one with a two piece bow and one without....

HENRY JONES JR.
05-30-2013, 05:01 AM
LOL also, short round has a little mole under the wrong eye in the reverse shot. LOL! I know it's overkill, but it just cements my case that it's a reversed shot. :D

I didn't think the ribbons were changed from scene to scene, but rather all the ribbons changed to a darker ribbon before filming, and perhaps one was sewed in a double by mistake.

fifthchamber
05-30-2013, 06:47 AM
No worries...Like I said, I was only thinking about the idea you'd had about the ribbons being added by the film crew.....As it stands, we're back to that point anyway...

No change at all really..

HENRY JONES JR.
05-30-2013, 03:58 PM
I've found out that the hat listed and shown above doesn't have a liner in it either....The "Herbert Johnson" is written in italics on the leather of the band, as well as a handwritten I.J. 1 in there as well and what remains of an address line.....So the lining wasn't the clue there...The "IJ1" might be a reference to it being a left over from Raiders, or to it being a "hero" hat of some sort for Ford.....Which one Vic was wearing, I couldn't guess..But the no liner might mean it was this one (Used in the studio shots mostly it seems? On the bridge, and in the plane)....

There's one HJ, with no two piece ribbon, and your hat, with the ribbon in pieces, used in Sri Lanka for the shooting so far then....Interesting eh?

The TOD fedoras did not have liners in them. Your correct.
1. When Indy's hat falls off in the spike chamber, and he reaches to grab it before the door falls on his arm, you can see there is no liner.
2. When Willie in the airplane takes off his hat, and fans indy with it to wake him up, there also is no liner.

Not sure why this was. All the other films hats have liners.

JeffDJ
05-30-2013, 07:44 PM
LOL also, short round has a little mole under the wrong eye in the reverse shot. LOL! I know it's overkill, but it just cements my case that it's a reversed shot. :D
Yeah, definitely reversed. In addition to the physical evidence already stated, you can see Ford's nose is angled the wrong way too -- a dead giveaway in cases like these.

Like you, I really hate when the flip images in movies. I can understand the reasoning for the filmmakers to do it in some cases, but it's really obvious when a person's face isn't perfectly symmetrical or you have to deal with things like hat ribbons, shoulder bag straps, hair parts, holsters, whips, scars, etc. that are supposed to be on a particular side, and then suddenly they're on the opposite side.

Curiously though, in the subsequent scene when Indy faces the guard then frees the kids from their chains, everything is back to the way it's supposed to be EXCEPT he's wearing the bag over the wrong shoulder. Then in the following scene in the mine when he's fighting Pat Roach, the bag is back where it should be.

HENRY JONES JR.
05-30-2013, 09:26 PM
Yeah, definitely reversed. In addition to the physical evidence already stated, you can see Ford's nose is angled the wrong way too -- a dead giveaway in cases like these.

Like you, I really hate when the flip images in movies. I can understand the reasoning for the filmmakers to do it in some cases, but it's really obvious when a person's face isn't perfectly symmetrical or you have to deal with things like hat ribbons, shoulder bag straps, hair parts, holsters, whips, scars, etc. that are supposed to be on a particular side, and then suddenly they're on the opposite side.

Curiously though, in the subsequent scene when Indy faces the guard then frees the kids from their chains, everything is back to the way it's supposed to be EXCEPT he's wearing the bag over the wrong shoulder. Then in the following scene in the mine when he's fighting Pat Roach, the bag is back where it should be.

Go figure! I seem to remember a flipped scene in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK also somewhere.

Ram Man
05-31-2013, 12:49 AM
Since we're on the subject..... If my memory serves me correctly I do believe that there are a few flipped scenes in TOD. It's been awhile since I have watched it but I believe that the shooting star scene on the hilltop with Short Round was flipped and I also seem to remember the scene where they were approaching the temple immediately after Indy says "we walk from here" might have been flipped.

I'm only going from memory but it might be fun to check.....

Gunslinger
05-31-2013, 01:00 AM
A lot of the time it's due to a continuity error - Watch the scene in Star Wars where Luke is drinking out of the white cup - but it often happens if the director has accidentally "crossed the line" when blocking and shooting a scene. So people are 180 degrees out of whack to the flow of the action, so you have to flip the shot to make it not jar.

JeffDJ
05-31-2013, 01:16 AM
In the Star Wars movies, there was one in ROTJ that stood out: On the skiff where Han & Luke are catching up ("You're gonna die here, you know.") is flipped. Again, you can tell by Ford's "backwards" face (nose, scar), not to mention Chewie's bandolier is over the wrong shoulder. Also, The Phantom Menace had several flipped shots, and the telltale in those was R2-D2, whose features are quite distinct and so easy to identify when flipped.

Louisianna James
06-02-2013, 03:07 AM
I believe that the bridge and airplane hat are the same hat by the creases in the ribbon. I think that they shot the the bridge scene before the airplane scene by the looks of the hat, at the bridge the hat looks perfect, then it probably got beat up and wet probably in the big rushing water after the mine cart scene or the raft ride scene, then the hat turns out what it looks in the airplane scene, TADA the "Liontamer Style hat" as i call it :D

HENRY JONES JR.
06-02-2013, 04:49 PM
A lot of the time it's due to a continuity error - Watch the scene in Star Wars where Luke is drinking out of the white cup - but it often happens if the director has accidentally "crossed the line" when blocking and shooting a scene. So people are 180 degrees out of whack to the flow of the action, so you have to flip the shot to make it not jar.

Your right Gunslinger, That is the reason.