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Marauder
08-20-2010, 06:12 PM
Julien's Legends (#5), Lot 158

HERE (https://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/8/lot/1814/)

Hollywood
08-20-2010, 07:22 PM
Phony. :'(

Marauder
08-21-2010, 04:11 AM
To me the brim of that hat looks to be the same dimension all around.

I wonder if the Ford signature is real.

bendingoak
08-21-2010, 05:01 AM
They called the ribbon a petersham but the ribbon on the hat is clearly a grosgrain. All indy hats were the same grosgrain ribbon.

Junior
08-22-2010, 02:56 PM
To me the brim of that hat looks to be the same dimension all around.

I wonder if the Ford signature is real.


Ford SIG looks real. Looks very similar to the style he uses now.

Noah
08-23-2010, 05:13 AM
The top dent actually looks like a dent I've seen on one in LC.

bendingoak
08-23-2010, 02:45 PM
But not one that it was intended to be.

Todd
08-23-2010, 09:06 PM
Do you think Ford unwittingly signed a phony hat, or is the signature forged, too? What about the photo of Ford with the guy backstage?

Do you think the hat is really the one from the auction, or is it a copy, using the auction as the "backstory"?

Noah
08-24-2010, 06:30 AM
But not one that it was intended to be.

True that. It probably got there after wearing it and it got pushed in. I'm guessing that's what happened with this hat, the top got pushed in a little.

bendingoak
08-24-2010, 06:53 AM
But would HJ call it by this??????? No because thats not what they would have called a center dent top crease.

Todd
08-24-2010, 03:08 PM
Provenance. Bash-crown-ribbon- they aren't conclusive evidence that the hat was NOT made for TOD. Maybe the costume department returned them because they were junk?

"John Isaac". Probably impossible to locate. Why on Earth would an HJ employee wind up with a hat made for TOD? I can't think of any reason. Once the hats were picked up, they would be gone for good, unless Anthony Powell sent them back and said "make us new ones".

"John Isaac's" COA isn't worth the paper it's typed on. No letterhead, no contact information, nothing. Totally unverifiable. Sounds like someone doctored up their HJ to meet Harrison Ford.

Hollywood
08-24-2010, 07:04 PM
Here is my take on this hat.

A. Ford will sign anything Indy related so long as it is in good taste. So the fact that a person who had some sort of access to an event that Ford attended, and Ford signing the hat does not make it production made for TOD, or any other Indy film.

B. To my eyes the hat does not look anything like the HJ TOD hat that used to be on display at the Presidio when it was taken over by Lucas Films.

C. I have studied a few authentic examples of HJ Indy hats from LC which all had "IJ III" listed on the sweatband. The two TOD examples I have studied, mine included, neither had "IJ" embossed in gold on them. Granted mine is not an HJ, but mine was labeled the same as the HJ from Lucas Films. I have seen MANY forged Indy hats from the various films from HJ that all had the gold embossed "IJ" or "IJ II" or "IJ III" on the sweat band. See the most recent TOD hat featured by Profiles in History for case in point.

D. Of the two TOD hats that I have held (mine & the one that used to be on display at the Presidio) neither had sweat liners intact. I am not sure why this is, but I can only speak for what I have studied. Anthony Powell was not able to tell me why, and Western Costumes could not say why either. This was however done during production. Who knows why. I do not see any production information on the interior, nor is any listed in the auction which is unusual, and something that without this info you can NEVER prove was in or intended to be used in the film.

E. The "COA"/ Letter of Provenance is simplistic, and does not in any way confirm that the hat in question was worn by Harrison. The auction does not make that claim either, but the implication with the "supporting photos etc" is that this was Harrisons hat used for the production. The letter also only details how the TOD hats were constructed, and does not state how the signer knows if this hat was simply a produciton hat (stunt, stand-in, or back up) or if the hat was intended for Harrison.

This market is so flooded with fakes that ever since KOTCS was released more than 6 "authentic" hats have hit the market from "this was a test hat worn by Ford" to "this was a rejected hat." All those claims are loose at best, and are not equivalent in my eyes to hat that can be proven to have been made for production, and used/ made for Harrison Ford.......WITH TRACEABLE provenance.

RCSignals
08-24-2010, 07:14 PM
Good post Hollywood. Makes sense.

Just a question for clarity, when you say
neither had sweat liners intact do you mean the liners were damaged or not in place?

Hollywood
08-24-2010, 08:10 PM
Good post Hollywood. Makes sense.

Just a question for clarity, when you say
neither had sweat liners intact do you mean the liners were damaged or not in place?


Thanks for the compliment. The sweat band is in place, but the interior liner is missing. I am not sure if this was done intentionally, or due to damage. No one has been able to provide a solid reason why they would have been removed, but the production info is labled on the interior hat above the sweat band where the liner would have hidden the fabric, proving to some extent that this was done during filming, and not corrected. I can say that this is not overly unusual, in that some of the stunt hats for KOTCS had no liners either. Coincidence? Not sure.

crismans
08-24-2010, 08:30 PM
Thanks for posting this info, Hollywood!

Just throwing this out there, but maybe they removed the liners due to the heat of some of the sites used for filming?

RCSignals
08-24-2010, 08:34 PM
I was joking in the other thread about it being fun if the screen Stetson's had the Stetson 'cowboy giving his horse a drink of water from his hat' liner. But maybe that would explain the removal of liners?

Who knows really. I remember reading something a while back (on the Internet of course so it has to be reliable ;) ) that only certain hats which the interior would be filmed had liners left in.

Hollywood
08-24-2010, 08:39 PM
Thanks for posting this info, Hollywood!

Just throwing this out there, but maybe they removed the liners due to the heat of some of the sites used for filming?


Could be true. I am not sure. One would think that Anthony Powell would have known, but he doesn't. Go figure.

bendingoak
08-24-2010, 08:48 PM
Thanks for posting this info, Hollywood!

Just throwing this out there, but maybe they removed the liners due to the heat of some of the sites used for filming?


That would be my thinking. Like I stated before there are other things to make me question this auction. HJ would never describe their hats in that manner. That was a big tip for me.

RCSignals
08-24-2010, 08:55 PM
Yes this Julian's auction hat has red flags all over it.

bendingoak
08-24-2010, 10:33 PM
It makes me scratch my head.

RCSignals
08-24-2010, 10:45 PM
It makes me scratch my head.


Don't get slivers now ;)

:angel: