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PLATON
04-06-2012, 08:39 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/132210974_b7882fdf2b_o.jpg

do you think this is the main hero?
how do you support your opinion?

neutronbomb
04-06-2012, 08:19 PM
I think so. But, I'm not so certain as with the jackets in the movie. With those analysis' I'm very sure. Does it make it so or true? No, however I personally believe it 100%.

I was saving all the Promo jackets for last. But I'll get up what I've been looking at. For this jacket and the other photo of it at a different angle I suspect its the main. For all the others like the Stars etc. I think are of the imam. What makes it hard is I think they took all those promo pics before shooting started at ellstree and fiddled with the jackets a bit.

PLATON
04-07-2012, 10:24 AM
this is not a promo pic
this is a pic from the filming of the bar fight

neutronbomb
04-07-2012, 12:47 PM
Thank you Mr. Specific.

crismans
04-07-2012, 01:45 PM
Let's just call it a behind the scenes" pic! ;D

Ravenswood
04-07-2012, 02:17 PM
I think it's the Main Hero Jacket, based on the pocket snap placement, and the height of the pocket flap seam. The rest of the jacket appears to fit the hero profile as well. Perhaps the strap configuration says something otherwise, but all in all, I see this as the Main Hero.

neutronbomb
04-07-2012, 05:46 PM
A few things that I've been looking at and considering:

1. Are jackets A and B the same jacket? ? ?
2. Are either one the same jacket as C?

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare1.jpg


regarding compare 2 below:
1. The right collar/collar tip from jacket B from compare 1 looks like a pretty good matchup to this screengrap of The Main Hero.
2. The Stars photo which is the same jacket as jacket C from compare 1 looks like it's a very close match up with the right zipper swoop and lining creases with this screegrap of The Imam Jacket.
3. However, this would mean they would have had to straighten out the left collar stand and collar of jacket C to get to The Imam. I'm not sure I like that idea very much. The right collar stand and collar of jacket C, not compared here, does more closely match that of The Imam jackets of the film though than to that of The Main Hero.
4. Also, the weird strap look on the Stars seems very similar to that from jacket A in compare 1.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare2.jpg

neutronbomb
04-13-2012, 01:34 AM
[EDIT: I am incorrect on my conclusion in the first sentence of this post that the promo pics are of the prototype jacket. They are rather of the Imam jacket.]

I'm convinced the jackets I labeled as "C" in the Compare 1 photo from my previous post is The Prototype Jacket. I don't have any doubt as the left collar/collar stand is a pretty perfect match and the right collar also lays out like 'C'.

I don't like a few things though like the background matching for A, B, and some of C and the strap attachment and zipper swoop on The Stars that I already pointed out. However, it's not a really a good shot of the strap and the angles bad and as Gunslinger has shown before right side of The Prototype and Imam jacket's present often as very similar. i.e. like how the right side collar on the Imam lays open in some scenes and looks very similar to The Prototypes. When I get the chance I'll post up compares of the Three jackets with the full collar shots. When both sides are looked at it becomes pretty clear. The Main Hero has one shot of it's LEFT collar stand setup that is almost a perfect match with the Prototypes. But, when looking at both sides it's pretty clear which is which.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare3.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare4.jpg

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare55.jpg

neutronbomb
05-09-2015, 11:53 PM
Platon, the answer is no. It is the Imam.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/132210974_b7882fdf2b_o.jpg

do you think this is the main hero?
how do you support your opinion?

Ram Man
05-10-2015, 01:46 PM
A few things that I've been looking at and considering:
Remember click the thumbnail and then click again for 100%.

1. Are jackets A and B the same jacket? ? ?
2. Are either one the same jacket as C?

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare1.jpg


regarding compare 2 below:
1. The right collar/collar tip from jacket B from compare 1 looks like a pretty good matchup to this screengrap of The Main Hero.
2. The Stars photo which is the same jacket as jacket C from compare 1 looks like it's a very close match up with the right zipper swoop and lining creases with this screegrap of The Imam Jacket.
3. However, this would mean they would have had to straighten out the left collar stand and collar of jacket C to get to The Imam. I'm not sure I like that idea very much. The right collar stand and collar of jacket C, not compared here, does more closely match that of The Imam jackets of the film though than to that of The Main Hero.
4. Also, the weird strap look on the Stars seems very similar to that from jacket A in compare 1.



http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare2.jpg

Looking at your compares I am convinced that jacket A and B are the same due to the bend in the zipper in front of the right pocket. Its in the exact place on each pic. If that's the case and your comparison between the Main Hero and jacket B are correct then this reasoning would indeed make it the Main Hero jacket.

Ram Man
05-11-2015, 04:14 AM
In fact the more I look at it, that bend in the zipper appears in the Stars photo as well. Quite possibly the center C photo too... I noticed too that the zipper from that point up appears to be quite straight without any of the typical waviness.

Ram Man
05-12-2015, 08:13 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/132210974_b7882fdf2b_o.jpg

do you think this is the main hero?
how do you support your opinion?

It was mentioned that this is from the bar scene. Has that been verified? It looks more like the Temple scene to me. It appears to my eye that this jacket has a thinner hem seam along the action pleat (like the ToD jacket) which really stands out in the movie where Indy reaches around his shoulder to swipe the tarantulas with his whip.

The same bend in the zipper is noticeable in the Imam jacket. I agree with NB that this is the Imam jacket!

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20COMPARE%20-%20Length/imam_frontlength1.jpg

Ram Man
05-12-2015, 08:26 PM
In fact I think A, B and C are the same jacket as they all appear to be taken in the same location. This would harmonize with your reasoning on your Imam Jacket thread NB as you mentioned that the temple jacket is the Imam jacket as well.

neutronbomb
05-13-2015, 12:51 AM
My apologies for not replying sooner Ram Man, but I've been busy putting together compares so that even RCSignals will be convinced. These compares (IMHO Indy_cheers) definitively solve the "promo pics" and should also erase any doubt as to the TOD main jacket being the prototype jacket. I guess I can retire after this and sit back and Indy_popcorn

But to respond to your last post. Yes the Imam Jacket is the temple jacket, but only for part of the entire sequence. The Temple scenes are split up between both The Main Hero Jacket and The Imam Jacket. I have the time frames listed for where each jacket shows up in the three different Raiders jacket threads.

Hey, nice catch on the Imam jacket zipper bend.

I'll get the compares posted up in a bit.

neutronbomb
05-13-2015, 04:56 PM
Ok. unfortunately I got too hung up on the left collar/collar stand's general shape of the promo pics. I do address it thoroughly in one of the compares below, but since the Imam jacket doesn't ever present that way in the film I let the way it presents in the promo pics tempt me to the dark side. The shape does appear to match the prototype's as seen in Raiders as my confusing compares and discussion from earlier show, but at closer inspection they really do not. So I apologize to everyone for this error and hope this fixes it. I'm very sorry for this mistake. What really sucks is that I had it right in one of the earlier compares when I compared the Stars photo zipper shape to the Imam's as seen in the "don't go into the light" and the stars photo's undone vent strap to the promo pic's undone vent strap. So in addition to these new compares, there are those earlier compares also that show the jacket used in the promo pics is the Imam jacket.

I have attached the "problem" compare from the Prototype Jacket thread at the bottom of this post for reference. Also, I agree with you. A, B, & C jacket images from the series of promo pics are all of the same jacket :drink:

In fact I think A, B and C are the same jacket as they all appear to be taken in the same location. This would harmonize with your reasoning on your Imam Jacket thread NB as you mentioned that the temple jacket is the Imam jacket as well.


I've basically done three color-coded compares. Showing a macro view of several features, a close-up compare of one feature, and then a micro view compare of that left collar area. They help show how the promo pic that Platon asked about is the Imam Jacket.

The first two images below are of the same compare. Just one with my markups and one without for reference. Shows various features of the Imam Jacket matches the promo pic Platon posted.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare6.5_zps2zyqr9o2.jpg~original

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare6_zpsayxv6n9q.jpg~original


Check out the "take note" photo from the first compare above. The "crescent moon" shape (that's how the Imam's left side collar shape looked right outta the box before it was used for filming) that led me astray actually does help to show that all the promo pics are of the same jacket, which allows us to use those various promo pics for matching. This second compare then basically shows the storm flap of the Imam jacket is an exact match to the jacket used for the promo pics.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare7.5_zps5daqvynm.jpg~original


I found a higher quality def. of the left collar/collar stand area of the Prototype jacket when Terry Leonard is wearing it. It is an absolute perfect match to the main TOD jacket. There can be no doubt. Also, I threw in a photo of the raiders main hero jacket and the Imam jacket for compare and contrasting purposes. As the compare shows, the jacket used in the promo pics is again a perfect match to the Imam. I could have drawn all over the compare showing like a dozen more matches, but held off to just a few to keep it as clean and easy to read as possible. All of them are very excellent. Showing two things: the Prototype jacket from Raiders is the main TOD jacket and that the jacket used for the raiders promo pics are the Imam jacket. But, the one I think that just flat out seals the deal for the jacket used for the promo pics being the Imam jacket is the gap difference between the end of the zipper and the collar stand. The main hero and the prototype do not match this gap as compared to the jacket used in the promo pics, but the Imam's is a perfect match.

An interesting observation I made was in looking at the distance from the zipper to the edge of the storm flap. I increased the size (not part of the compare) of one of the Imam jacket's photos as seen in the Hawaii scene I used in the compare to match the size of the one I used for the raiders main hero and that distance looks exactly the same to me. However, in every single way I tried, The Prototype Jacket's distance from the zipper to the edge of the storm flap looks much, much smaller. For this third compare, I again included an unmarked up image of the same compare for reference like I did above for my first one. Hopefully the color coding should be self evident.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare8.7_zpsimqr8rdo.jpg~original

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20promo%20pics/behindscenes_compare8.5_zpsin7ccvlu.jpg~original


Problem compare. And the answer now is..no. Not the same left side collar/collar stand.
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/ROTLA%20-%20The%20Imam%20Jacket/problem_zps8362bf95.jpg~original

Ram Man
05-15-2015, 12:17 AM
After a couple of really good scotches and scratching my balding head only one thing confuses me. It's clear that the prototype jacket is the ToD jacket but the flat left collar on the Imam jacket has me second guessing if it is the promo jacket....I'm sooo confused!!:crazy: I reread your post to see if I missed something. Not sure if you can retire yetIndy_popcorn
I still have no doubt that A, B, and C plus the Stars jacket are the same.

Ram Man
05-15-2015, 12:29 AM
I realise that you addressed the left collar issue at the outset but I guess I'm having trouble clarifying it. Are you saying that the collar behaves differently in different scenes? Everything else about the jacket seems to match the promo jacket pics!!

neutronbomb
05-15-2015, 01:37 AM
Yes but look at the Temple of doom prototype jacket. The left side collar has also flattened out. I think that over time the collars tend to flatten out. All of my jackets have despite my best attempts. Look at the right side of the imams during the imam scene. Upright. But by the end of filming during the Hawaii shoot it has fallen.

Kt Templar
05-15-2015, 02:07 AM
To add a fly into the ointment. The NH ToD jacket has a distinctive difference to the way the collar is constructed, and it can only be seen on Wested ToD's or other makers ones that have be reverse engineered from it. The collar does not have a separate stand piece of leather inside the collar. It is a single piece with just a stitch to separate the collar from the 'stand' part.

If any of the Raiders jacket can be seen to have a proper inner collar stand (such as the Flying Wing jacket, and the Raven Bar) It cannot be the ToD jacket.

Ram Man
05-15-2015, 02:14 AM
Ok I'm back on track. Thanks for the clarification and your hard work on the compares as well! I know all of this takes much time but it is appreciatedIndy_cheers

neutronbomb
05-15-2015, 04:39 PM
Thank you Ram Man Indy_cheers

neutronbomb
05-15-2015, 04:58 PM
kT. I understand what you are referring to about the NH collar and collar stand being one piece on the front side as can be seen in the photos you have provided of the NH jacket when Peter had it. Though it seems we are at odds much of the time, it is very, very appreciated and I want to thank you for providing those photos for our community.

Since it appears that the NH was intended as an exact copy of the Raiders prototype jacket, I would think it (Raiders prototype) too would have that same collar/collar stand design. However, I can't find clear enough photos or screengrabs of the Raiders Prototype jacket in Raiders or when it is used in TOD to be able to say without doubt IMO that it is so. What I can see makes me lean that way though.

I'm taking your last statement about the "proper" collar stand to mean that if a "proper" collar stand can be seen in Raiders, then it is not the Raiders prototype jacket and it is not either of the two jackets used in TOD: the Raiders Prototype jacket or the NH TOD jacket.

I agree with this as I haven't seen any evidence directly to the contrary and it makes complete sense that it would be so, however, I don't understand how it relates to being a fly in the ointment with my analysis.


To add a fly into the ointment. The NH ToD jacket has a distinctive difference to the way the collar is constructed, and it can only be seen on Wested ToD's or other makers ones that have be reverse engineered from it. The collar does not have a separate stand piece of leather inside the collar. It is a single piece with just a stitch to separate the collar from the 'stand' point.

If any of the Raiders jacket can be seen to have a proper inner collar stand (such as the Flying Wing jacket, and the Raven Bar) It cannot be the ToD jacket.

IMyourGDpartner
10-08-2015, 11:49 PM
...to the photo with Ford's right arm up....The pocket wrinkles are a dead give away, as is the wonky left side collar. looks like this one has a thin yoke as well. The Hawaii collar laid flat, whereas the Hero had to short, wonky collar. The Hero also had the striations on the upper right chest.