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PLATON
10-11-2011, 04:23 PM
Riley closed up shop?
true or false? or old news?

please let me know

indydude18
10-11-2011, 05:05 PM
PLATON, there's a thread in the Vendors section covering this, but I'll post a quote from NB which pretty much should answer your question. Everything is still pretty much in the air. But I HOPE he comes back to making jackets, I want another one! :)




Here's everything that I know:

1. Marie and Riley are focusing on the Arnold classic or whatever big body building event is going on in Spain/Europe next week.
2. They've taken a step back from making jackets for fans right now as a jacket or two a week takes relatively a lot of work, but doesn't generate enough to keep the business a float.
3. They are focusing all their time on work that generates the revenue streams the business needs. Basically large jacket runs for shows and businesses and some movie work.
3. He has all the interested individuals communications regarding jacket interest saved and in an ordered list so that when if they are able to get back to making jackets for individuals they'll be able to contact them. But again, they've stepped back from that for now.
4. One jacket is made for a person in Japan. Once he is a le to make payment arrangements, he'll be a le to ship it out.

PLATON
10-14-2011, 06:07 PM
and what was the latest price tag for Raiders jacket made by Riley?

Kt Templar
10-14-2011, 06:31 PM
$1000 ish.

Indiego Jones
10-14-2011, 11:13 PM
Past november, Riley quoted a Raiders jacket to me, on the shrunken lamb, U$D 1200 + shipping

Raider S
10-14-2011, 11:35 PM
Too bad you didn't seize the opportunity to deal with the big man himself.

He who heistates is f*cked...

PLATON
10-15-2011, 11:44 AM
I guess $1200 is ridiculus, and saying that can't afford to be making jackets that sell at $1200.
You can buy Gucci with that money...

neutronbomb
10-15-2011, 03:33 PM
Somebody's feeling poopy this morning.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt235/neutronbomb_photos/poopy.jpg

Raider S
10-15-2011, 04:04 PM
I guess $1200 is ridiculous, and saying that can't afford to be making jackets that sell at $1200.
You can buy Gucci with that money...


Was this thread a joke?

I'm 110% certain you, Platon, know these jackets have been selling for about $1,000 or more since Tony died yet you act like this is something new?

You spend thousands of hours "studying" Indiana Jones costume crap, repeatedly bitch about the price someone chooses to sell their products for, and still you're looking for the jacket you really want?

As for Gucci, $1,200 is chump change compared to what many people spend on clothing on a trip to the mall..

PLATON
10-18-2011, 07:11 AM
Was this thread a joke?

I'm 110% certain you, Platon, know these jackets have been selling for about $1,000 or more since Tony died yet you act like this is something new?

You spend thousands of hours "studying" Indiana Jones costume crap, repeatedly bitch about the price someone chooses to sell their products for, and still you're looking for the jacket you really want?

As for Gucci, $1,200 is chump change compared to what many people spend on clothing on a trip to the mall..

Don't get me wrong. I didn't know how much the price was after Tony died because I stopped following things back then, long before his death. Also, I studied the film jacket not the vendors' jackets. Once I had an email exchange with Riley, asked leather samples, he sent me some, couldn't find something I liked so didn't order. Never asked him for a price and so he didn't say. I am not bitching about the price. Everyone can put whatever tag he likes if there is a market for it. I am just saying that you can't be selling at that price and say you can't afford to continue. I mean, at what price you can afford? Don't answer that. It's just me wondering.

bendingoak
10-18-2011, 04:18 PM
It's so easy to criticize when you are sitting on the other side of the table. You see $1200 and everyone say to themselves " he making a killing" not all of that goes into his pocket. Materials, labor, rent and he has to pull a profit worth his time. At around $1200 for that jacket and he still can't afford to keep it open means that he himself is not making enough money to justify keeping the biz open or that part of the biz. He could raise the prices higher so it would be worth it but no one buy them most likely.

It's so easy to Monday morning quarterback something like this but until you are in the man shoes. Step back a moment and think.

neutronbomb
10-18-2011, 06:45 PM
Bendingoak is right on this. Someone might be dreaming of how great it would be to "rake" in $1,200 a jacket sitting at their mothers kitchen table with a pair of scissors and an old sewing machine. It all depends on cash flow, overhead, and the business model for the entire operation. Marie inherited a business from Tony that was not built around selling individual, customized Indy jackets. Tony made those jackets primarily because he really enjoyed making individual people happy. He added that aspect to his business model and I believe it cost him dearly. Family time, sleep time, off-time. It added the hours of 8pm to 12am-2am to his schedule. All for the reward of making people happy and adding maybe a few hundred dollars in profit per jacket (other than the CS which was at a loss), which is not even a drop in the bucket towards overhead for his business model. His business was primarily built on massive jacket runs for businesses and events and movie work. Nobody twisted his arm. He wanted to do it and though he had moments where he regretted ever starting it up, he loved to laugh and cut up with his customers. I think he got a lot out of it.

Marie and Riley then inherit the whole entire shebang and have to try and run it without Tony, who he was and what he did, and here we sit back making stupid judgements and comments about how ridiculous it is that the entire company can't make it by selling a couple of jackets a week to Indy fans. There's a reason so many outsource this type of work and there's also a reason why those who look at everything out their window of life from a 13 year old mowing lawns for part time spending money's perspective might have the wrong point of view on this.

Kt Templar
10-18-2011, 09:17 PM
There seems to be a little bit of irrationality creeping in here, we understand that some of you greatly loved Mr Nowak, however that does not mean Riley is exempt from the same basic rules of manufacture.

Before Tony arrived on the Indy jacket scene, the most expensive jacket from any vendor was about $400. The least expensive $150.

Now the $150 jacket was made in offshore. ie. Not in the US and not in Europe, therefore costs were lower. The most expensive was the G&B made in the US or possibly the Magnoli made in Asia.

So materials AND labour AND overhead are amply covered for a bulk manufacturer at $400-$500 per jacket. The $700 extra, where does that go on the N.O? Perhaps El Segundo is a very expensive area to be situated, I don't know.

Now there is a big pot of overhead to any business, but all things being equal, Riley should not have double + the overhead of the other US or even European makers. Materials to everyone will be broadly similar, if you buy in bulk, then costs come down. So Nowak Originals should be able to buy in bulk, they do for their big orders.

Something does not add up. If Riley's overhead IS that high then he is working very inefficiently.

And, no one saying the entire company should stop work on the other, big orders to fulfil the bespoke jackets. But you can employ a cutter for 2 days and a seamstress/machinist on the basis of 3-4 jackets a week at $1200 a jacket. Let the rest of the factory work on the bulk orders.

RCSignals
10-18-2011, 09:47 PM
Everyone talks about $1200, but that was only the price for the shrunken lamb jacket.

I know Tony was losing money on the CS jackets, and he agonised over raising the price, when he did raise it a little (still not enough) there was almost a revolt, and jabs from the peanut gallery who now claim to have been his great friend over at COW. The jabs got worse toward Riley.

The price of something is what it is. You either want it and pay it or you don't. Constant mud slinging over something you don't want to pay the price of accomplishes what?

Kt Templar
10-18-2011, 10:03 PM
Not mud slinging, just trying to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

When these are getting to be the price of a low end Saville Row suit the question does need to be asked.

bendingoak
10-18-2011, 10:07 PM
its pointless even to explain something because everyone thinks they know but if you drop the ball in their lap the story would change.

RCSignals
10-18-2011, 10:12 PM
Not mud slinging, just trying to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

When these are getting to be the price of a low end Saville Row suit the question does need to be asked.


I didn't necessarily mean you as mud slinging. There are others who have not just 'asked'.

There are other leather jackets in even higher price range. I don't read a lot of haranguing over them. There wasn't even this much chatter over the Belstaff CS jackets and their pricing, or the pricing of any Belstaff leather jacket for that matter. They aren't even custom made.

neutronbomb
10-18-2011, 10:15 PM
I don't appreciate your use of the term irrationality. I guess I could reply in kind and say I think there's quite a lot of moronic judgements by stupid backseat drivers getting bandied about here. There is much more involved than taking a sheet of paper and running some numbers. This isn't about $200 or $500 or whatever it is or you think it should be profit per Indiana Jones Fan Jacket.

The point is you and Platon and whoever the [Removed by ADMIN] else don't know Tonys business operation. Not whether it was a good one or a bad one or anything else and it was Tony with his decades of experience and particular gifts that made his operation work. HE'S NOT THERE TO RUN THE DEAL ANYMORE. Somebody else has to figure it out and make decisions on where to focus their time because Tony himself juggled a lot of balls in the air like 20 hours a day.

I don't know why you two give a shit anyway. You've both badmouthed him, his jackets, and his prices since day one.

Kt Templar
10-18-2011, 10:21 PM
Not mud slinging, just trying to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.

When these are getting to be the price of a low end Saville Row suit the question does need to be asked.


I didn't necessarily mean you as mud slinging. There are others who have not just 'asked'.

There are other leather jackets in even higher price range. I don't read a lot of haranguing over them. There wasn't even this much chatter over the Belstaff CS jackets and their pricing, or the pricing of any Belstaff leather jacket for that matter. They aren't even custom made.


Yes, but we understand about the big brand names, they have other own overheads and their own margins. Big marketing budgets and top rent showrooms to pay for. Plus the small matter that they are priced that way to create the cachet. A Gucci T shirt is not a million miles away from a Fruit of the Loom but you will pay for the name 'Gucci'.

There has been plenty of debate about the Belstaff CS jacket! Though a good (double digit) percentage of that cost would have gone in Lucas Licensing's coffers.

Kt Templar
10-18-2011, 10:28 PM
And Neutron, I was close to buying a CS for $650.

If you calm down and read the debate rather than swearing and ranting you might see logic.

Gunslinger
10-18-2011, 11:25 PM
Anyone that's held one of these jackets can tell it's not just been pumped out. That takes time in labour, and the leather is second to none. Not the cheapest, sure, but VALUE? It's there in spades.

But at the end of the day Duncan, Bryan and John have it right. I just don't get why anyone who is being critical frames it in the terms that they have, given that the facts of events, etc. speak for themselves. It's either worth your while as a businessperson or it's not. The fact that the bespoke jackets have been more or less phased out should tell you something.

RCSignals
10-19-2011, 12:13 AM
I don't know why TN jackets get the focus of this.
As I've said before there are many makers in the same price range, some higher, and some are not 'gucci' makers. (obviously not all I-J jackets but that's irrelevant). Take a look at LostWorlds jackets, Goodwear jackets, Eastman jackets, even Aero jackets, the aforementioned Belstaff. Most of what those makers get are raves with very little comment over price.
Again the price of something is what it is. If the price isn't liked, there are other options.
Discussion is one thing, mud slinging by some is another, and there has been a lot of the latter, not necessarily in this thread, but it has been there and has created a stigma of sorts.

Raider S
10-19-2011, 12:14 AM
Platon = Jackwagon. This has been his MO for several years now. Crying about the cost of Nowak jackets and drawing lines on old photos to show the jacket was really a cape. BORING.

Too bad Tony never made the move to get shit jackets made in some Paki sweat shop then "customize" them with a bit of embroidery back at his shop and sell them for $250. That way every cheap bastard (those guys who cry about price but have a closet full of other makers shit jackets they don't even wear) could have had a "Nowak" as crappy as the other mass-produced turds they drone on about.

$1,200 IS expensive for a jacket for most people. I won't argue that. Say it once, say it twice, but by the hundredth time it's ONLY about pissing and moaning.

Sorry you didn't seize the opportunity to get what you wanted when you had the chance. Bitching about the price of jackets no longer even sold is sour grapes to the max.

RCSignals
10-19-2011, 12:17 AM
To some degree I think Platon is misunderstood. I really do. I also understand the monotony of all the comments on length price etc getting old.

Dagda
10-19-2011, 03:57 AM
Aero leather 1930's halfbelt. If I could afford it, I'd buy one and live in the thing. I'm not bitter about the price, because it's a beautiful leather and incredible looking jacket. Some, sorry, many people would say the same about a Nowak and many others could probably sell all of their turd jackets they don't wear and buy one.

Nefarious
10-19-2011, 05:59 AM
good conversation here. to take the big guy out of the equation, the folks should bear in mind the differences in leather. there is fine leather that is custom tanned per a customer's/jacket-maker's requirements, and there is that lower grade leather used for mass produced offerings (ie - south beach leather, heron leather......i got a bison jacket from 'jammin leathers' even). i am not trying to insult any owners of said products, but you surely must realize that the material is not top notch.....do a a 'new leather jacket' search on ebay and anything you find under $400 is most likely cheap chrome tanned leather from an inferior hide......chrome tanning is a great way to 'plasticize' leather and make it homogenous.....turns really bad leather to common mall/department store leather jackets. don't get me wrong, they also chrome tan the really good stuff.....but it is difficult to tell what is good and what is bad till she's sitting on your shoulders.....chrome tanning is like beer goggles to a leather jacket aficionado.

now going the other way, i have seen many....many.....did i say many???? fashion leather jackets with big names (D&G for one) that charge an arm and a leg so that the end user can sport those gaudy letters on him somewhere. break the jacket down from a quality perspective, and i've found many that were made with the same $400 overseas leather with multiple panelling all over the place.....$1000+ jacket made from the table scraps???? slap a big fashion name on it and the only thing you've paid for is a conversation piece with someone else who knows nothing of leather jackets.

now, take that into account with an artist that makes jackets. we're talking the folks that "make the one of's, made to measure, every project is different, and rarely get the end product wrong" kind of jacket maker. folks whose market niche is not "off the peg" wares. a person that can do this, and do this well, should get say $300 to $400 profit on a jacket no? this is about the range for paying an individual who has a very unique skill set that is in demand. good leather to make a decent sized jacket with maximum use of hide and minimal use of panelling will run you say another $300 to $400 for the materials......again, this is the top shelf stuff.....so, that being said, we can easily see how these jackets can get up there. of course, there is a upper ceiling as well......them off the peg $3K and $4K jackets, i truly believe are for folks that need that name brand in their lives.....shoot, you can fly to california and get JA Logan to suit you up for half that in anything you want.

in anything, you will have Ferraris and you'll have Kia's. each product is made for a specific niche. 'too expensive' is based on personal taste. case in point - i've got no problem with a $1K price tag of a fine made to measure leather jacket......but i find it hard to stomach $300 jeans when gap bootcut jeans fit me so well....LOL

PLATON
10-19-2011, 08:31 AM
Hi guys.
Thanks for your comments and critisism.

I am not judging Tony or Riley or anyone.
I don't even refer to Tony/Riley when I wonder how can he not afford with such price tag?

My statements had to do with the comparison of the actual cost versus the selling price and nothing against Tony or anyone.

bigrex
10-28-2011, 05:57 AM
Ok, I'll jump in for some Monday morning q-backing. Fact, is $1200 is an expensive jacket, and there will be fewer takers than for a cheaper jacket. I assume they must have it that high because they want to make a living. Taxes in CA are really insane I hear, and the cost of living is also not good in the "golden state". It's not like they can subsist on Chinese wages. I can't or won't buy one at that price, but to whomever ponies up the money, I'm sure it is worth it to them. I would rather buy a Pentax K-5, 12" diameter mirrored reflector telescope, two or three guns, 35 oz. of silver, or some gem/mineral specimens. Everyone has their way of spending money, I'll stick to the $300- priced jackets for all intensive purposes.

Nefarious
11-05-2011, 01:35 AM
Everyone has their way of spending money, .......


that says it all :)

good post bigrex.

badseed
02-06-2012, 08:28 PM
http://fora.tv/2011/05/10/Mister_Freedoms_Christophe_Loiron#Christophe_Loiro n_Justifying_a_Coats_900_Price_Tag

price of building a hand crafted article in the 1st world,not 100% on topic but worth a look

Returningson
03-01-2012, 11:22 PM
yeah, that video speaks the truth. High end specialized garments like Nowak jackets were all handcut and crafted right here in the USA out of Tony's little shop in El Segundo. Each production step requires and demands more money to spent thereby eating away into the profit margin. The onyl way to counteract this is to have a "high" (thats a relative term because they are leather jackets produced by higher end designers that retail for $3K +) price tag.