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RCSignals
08-14-2010, 06:39 AM
Not mine
This one was made of cowhide and you can see from the label was made in Korea.

Some of these jackets were also made in a shrunken grain lamb, although I do not have photos of one in that skin.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/th_BoTnTQBmkKGrHqQH-C4EuZWTkimBLm-3gQJ.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/?action=view&current=BoTnTQBmkKGrHqQH-C4EuZWTkimBLm-3gQJ.jpg)

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/th_BoTYDpB2kKGrHqIH-DIEuWIYSlGBLm-4iYI.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/?action=view&current=BoTYDpB2kKGrHqIH-DIEuWIYSlGBLm-4iYI.jpg)

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/th_BoTZbwWkKGrHqUH-DMEt9b925hZBLm-3BKY.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/?action=view&current=BoTZbwWkKGrHqUH-DMEt9b925hZBLm-3BKY.jpg)

RCSignals
08-14-2010, 06:41 AM
a Willabee and Ward magazine advertisement.


Notice same label


http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/th_WWjacket.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/?action=view&current=WWjacket.jpg)

RCSignals
08-14-2010, 06:46 AM
a corresponding TV advertisement

don't call the number :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzTBEO6R2fY

Kt Templar
08-14-2010, 07:23 AM
That jacket has double stitching on the shoulders. Also no hem stitch, or back of sleeve overstitch, and it seems to have facings on the zipper.

So 2 possibilites occur to me.

1) It was patterned on the same LC Proto as the CS.

2) One of these WAS the LC Proto.

Don't sell it if it's yours... you have a CS right there!

Question, is there any evidence of Cooper Indy jackets prior to these ads because this is clearly a Last Crusade era licensed item: the copyright date is 1992 and Imagery is Last Crusade.

Question 2: Who once said he'd NEVER seen doublestiching on an Indy jacket before the CS one?

Chewbacca Jones
08-14-2010, 09:28 PM
To the best of my knowledge, these jackets, in that pattern, started selling while LC was in production. I got one while they were still Coopers, but I think I have an old Lucasfilm Fanclub Magazine with an ad where the manufacturers name is no longer mentioned. That may have been when other companies starting getting into the mix. I'll look through them again.

What is scary is how similar these jackets were to the CS AND to the design that US Wings has been selling for so many years.

neutronbomb
08-14-2010, 11:33 PM
Interesting as it's a lee keppler that's been credited as being what the LC was based on. I wonder if there's a relationship in there somewhere with how that old coopers looks.

RCSignals
08-15-2010, 01:00 AM
This is the jacket photo, or one of them, that was sent to manufacturers vying for the CS job apparently

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/jacket%20stuff/th_indy4jacket.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/jacket%20stuff/?action=view&current=indy4jacket.jpg)

Tony Nowak when he was brought in for the I-J jacket was sent a jacket along with an escort for it.
That jacket according to Tony was in very poor shape, and not that well made. He said he was told it was the jacket from the Smithsonian.
The jacket in the photo does not look in bad shape.
What was finally used for CS had some changes made, such as the collar and a few other things.
The Fan jacket first posted has some similar details to the final CS jacket, and generally it is similar to the typical USWings jacket, but there are differences such as the collar stand configuration, the double stitching, back panel and a few other small things.
Those are just observations

Chewbacca Jones
08-15-2010, 03:16 AM
I don't know what kind of quality the sample jacket was that Tony got, but the Fan jacket I had got worn nearly every day for three years, and frequent wear for several more. It left my hands in almost new condition! ;D I guess the replicas have always been better than the real article, huh?

RCSignals
08-15-2010, 03:29 AM
Yes they seem to cut corners for screen jackets.

Kt Templar
08-15-2010, 07:42 AM
This is the jacket photo, or one of them, that was sent to manufacturers vying for the CS job apparently

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/jacket%20stuff/th_indy4jacket.jpg (http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll303/RCSignals/jacket%20stuff/?action=view&current=indy4jacket.jpg)

Tony Nowak when he was brought in for the I-J jacket was sent a jacket along with an escort for it.
That jacket according to Tony was in very poor shape, and not that well made. He said he was told it was the jacket from the Smithsonian.
The jacket in the photo does not look in bad shape.
What was finally used for CS had some changes made, such as the collar and a few other things.
The Fan jacket first posted has some similar details to the final CS jacket, and generally it is similar to the typical USWings jacket, but there are differences such as the collar stand configuration, the double stitching, back panel and a few other small things.
Those are just observations


I think Tony may have misunderstood or have been misinformed. The jacket he copied (for CS) is very different from the Smithsonian. The double stitch shoulders are not on the Smithsonian so they must have come from another jacket. The Cooper/Wings also has the tall rectangular pockets with the relatively unscalloped pocket flaps we see on the CS. It also has the overlong and flabby sleeves.

When he was talking about a jacket being in bad shape, I think he was talking about the later 'Raiders' jacket that he was sent.

RCSignals
08-15-2010, 07:51 AM
The Raiders jacket later sent or loaned to Tony was in bad shape yes. But he also specifically said the jacket they sent to copy for CS was in bad shape and poorly made. I'm not mistaken in that we discussed it many times.
There are a few things that were changed for the final version. Collar was one, pockets were another. There is more but it really doesn't matter.
It's just curious the condition of the jacket in the photo. Also that if the jacket were nothing more than a common fan jacket, why send it with what was essentially a guard?

I guess we are getting off topic now.

Kt Templar
08-15-2010, 07:58 AM
Unfortunately I didn't keep the first pics of the 'Source Proto' that Peter posted up.

The pics were very badly colour balanced and looked quite blue. I can't say with any certainty that the 'sample' is the same jacket.

This caramel coloured jacket is odd.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it might have been the first one that Nowak made. However, Pollack was still making encouraging noises to Peter at the time, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to show him it and suggest tiny tweaks to Peter's proto. Unless he was stringing him along for fun.

Chewbacca Jones
08-15-2010, 11:35 PM
Pursuant to RC's original post, I see his W&W ad is dates 1992. Probably post-Cooper?

I'm not sure where Keppler enters the jacket flow, but I have the proof that the first commercially available licensed jacket was a Cooper. In the Spring 1989, the Lucasfilm Fanclub Magazine announces the release "for the first time" of a am authorized hat and jacket. The jacket is "produced by Cooper Sportswear" and was "barrier cow distressed" leather, 27 1/2 inch length" and had an "inverted back with side pleats" for the grand price of $295 USD!

My Spring 1990 issue still refers to Cooper, but 2 issues later (Fall 1990), the Cooper name is no longer in the description. Perhaps this marks the beginning of variant manufacturers? Or just saving ink. :-\

So, if the LC film jacket was based on a Keppler, it was not a licensed replica. But it would mean a direct link between Keppler, Cooper, US Wings, Tony Nowak, and the actual LC and CS jackets! This all falls very much in line with what "the Beards" have said about their preference for the LC jacket and maintaining that general aesthetic.

So, can anybody elaborate on the Keppler connection?

Kt Templar
08-15-2010, 11:57 PM
Remember LC came put in June 89. That means that the jacket for that film would have been produced around the autumn of 88.

It is quite plausible that proto from that film could have been given to Cooper/Wings to copy after that.

Remember that the Belstaff CS was produced in time for the release of CS.